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Should Mike Mussina’s number have been retired?


Frobby

Should Mike Mussina’s number have been retired?  

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  1. 1. Should Mike Mussina’s number have been retired?


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  • Poll closed on 05/30/22 at 15:44

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IMO most people outside of Baltimore identify Mussina with the Yankees. It is completely the team and owner's prerogative which numbers get the honor of being retired and I am fine if their criteria includes loyalty to the team. I'd rather they retire a player like Adam Jones who played 90%+ of his career in Baltimore even though he had fewer WAR than Mussina. I am not opposed to retiring Mussina's number but I don't really care if they don't.

 

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11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If the O's were to announce that they are going to retire Adam Jones' number you'd be opposed?

I would be. The reason is he isn’t going to the HOF. The whole WS argument is silly. The Angels not going to retire Trout’s number if they don’t win one? 

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17 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You have to win a World Series to get your number retired in Birdland.

We don’t know that.  It so happens that every Orioles great who has had their number retired won a World Series with the team.  But that doesn’t mean a player couldn’t come along who was good enough to have their number retired but didn’t win a WS.   I’m pretty comfortable saying Mussina would have had his number retired if he’d played his whole career here.

I hope the O’s win a few WS in the next couple of decades so we don’t have to test your theory.  

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16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If the O's were to announce that they are going to retire Adam Jones' number you'd be opposed?

I’d be against it on the grounds that he wasn’t quite at the level of player to deserve that honor.   But nothing to do with winning a WS.

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37 minutes ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

Mussina never seemed into any of the idolization he had here.  To me, he was never a Robinson-esque or Ripken-esque figure.  I think some tried to make him that.  But Mussina never embraced it and always seemed aloof to me.  His signing with the Yankees turned a lot of fans against him, but evidently he succeeded in alienating the guys who decide the retired numbers even more convincingly.

During his career a lot of people might have said the same thing about Jim Palmer.   Fans constantly complained about his nagging injuries, I think DURING his career he was never held in quite the same esteem as guys like Brooks and Frank..

Staying with the organization as an announcer afterwards and the perspective of time have made him far more LOVED today in Baltimore than he was when he was at the top of his game.

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I voted No. I wouldn't be upset if they did. I don't even think he should be in the HOF. Although he chose not to go in as either an Orioles or a Yankees player, he clearly has aligned himself more with the Yankees. He is the one who chose to pose next to his plaque in a Yankees jersey. He didn't pose in an Orioles jersey. That tells me he chose sides. I was done with him when he left. I don't really know who was at greater fault but neither side handled it well. He has always struck me as not being a team guy even when in NY.  BTW, just read the twtter thread. Buster does seem to have some weird fixation on this. Even fans from other teams are calling him out for regularly finding reasons to bash the O's specifically. 

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23 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm fairly certain my thoughts on this have been expressed.

Saying that, as others have pointed out, everyone who's had their number retired by the Orioles are in the HoF, won either a Cy Young, MVP, or Rookie of the year AND won a World Series as an Oriole.

None of them also left the team for the Yankees via Free Agency. Mu$$ina still remains the only player to be drafted, developed and star for the Orioles who left the team for the Yankees in his prime. 

Yes, I know all of the Angelos drama and yes I know dealing with Angelos was a horrible experience for almost everyone, but at the end of the day, the day he signed with the Yankees he gave up his chance to leave a legacy in baseball. 

He choose to be a 3rd or 4th starter and another hired gun for an organization that has been known for hired guns since free agency started in 1977. His own brother at the time said that Mussina did not enjoy the pressure of being a number one pitcher. Had he stayed (Angelos eventually offere him the same money as the Yankees) he would have been up there with Palmer as the greatest Orioles pitcher ever. That would have been a legacy.

He chose otherwise which is his right, but at no point should the Orioles give him that legacy back. The fact that he choose to go in without an Orioles cap (which made total sense honestly and I'm glad that he didn't) cemented this fact.

I can't see any case for retiring the number of a player not wearing an Orioles cap on the HoF.

 

My feelings exactly - great post Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I didn’t want to derail the thread on Adley’s debut, but SG posted this tweet from Buster Olney:

What’s your view of this?   Personally, Mussina was one of my favorite players ever, and I did not blame him one bit when he left the team.   I strongly supported his election to the Hall of Fame and of course the Orioles Hall of Fame.   But with all that said, I’m not offended that the O’s chose not to retire his number.   He chose to leave, in the prime of his career.   If the O’s had retired his number, that would have been OK with me, but I’m also OK with their decision not to retire it.  

As to Olney’s tweet, I wonder how many Hall of Famers voluntarily left their original team after 10+ years and while still in their prime.   
 

I wonder how many of these guys referred to in the tweet didn't go in as a member of their original team. That would seem to be a very low number to me. If I am right, that would provide some context and weaken his point.  

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I was a huge fan of Mussina when I was a kid and loved watching him pitch - no other O's pitcher in my time has given me the same confidence going into each start that the game was probably going to be a win (even in years when it didn't really work out that way). Him taking the Yankees blood money is still the most betrayed I've ever felt as a fan. I'm a little more philosophical about these things now, but I don't think his number needs to retired; he made his choices and that's one of the consequences.

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28 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm fairly certain my thoughts on this have been expressed.

Saying that, as others have pointed out, everyone who's had their number retired by the Orioles are in the HoF, won either a Cy Young, MVP, or Rookie of the year AND won a World Series as an Oriole.

None of them also left the team for the Yankees via Free Agency. Mu$$ina still remains the only player to be drafted, developed and star for the Orioles who left the team for the Yankees in his prime. 

Yes, I know all of the Angelos drama and yes I know dealing with Angelos was a horrible experience for almost everyone, but at the end of the day, the day he signed with the Yankees he gave up his chance to leave a legacy in baseball. 

He choose to be a 3rd or 4th starter and another hired gun for an organization that has been known for hired guns since free agency started in 1977. His own brother at the time said that Mussina did not enjoy the pressure of being a number one pitcher. Had he stayed (Angelos eventually offere him the same money as the Yankees) he would have been up there with Palmer as the greatest Orioles pitcher ever. That would have been a legacy.

He chose otherwise which is his right, but at no point should the Orioles give him that legacy back. The fact that he choose to go in without an Orioles cap (which made total sense honestly and I'm glad that he didn't) cemented this fact.

I can't see any case for retiring the number of a player not wearing an Orioles cap on the HoF.

 

That's interesting that Angelos offered a match of the Yankees offer.  

I'm ok with Mussina having not taken a discount to leave, but contract parity makes the fact that he left sting even more.  

It would have been interesting to see what the 2004 squad could have done with Moose.  They were in the top 10 in runs scored. They probably would have also needed to add a mid-rotation starter that year to really make it work, but that squad wasn't terrible by any means.  

Mussina - Lopez - ??? - Bedard - Ponson/Cabrera  

I doubt it would have been enough to get past the Red Sox and get the wild card spot.  98 wins is not a walk in the park. 

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13 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I wonder how many of these guys referred to in the tweet didn't go in as a member of their original team. That would seem to be a very low number to me. If I am right, that would provide some context and weaken his point.  

I know at times every fan base thinks the media has it out for them. It gets old. 
 

That said it is so obvious the disdain some of the media has for the Orioles. 

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