MASN announcer propaganda

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

At the same time we take note that starters are going less and less innings and there's an emphasis on bullpens in today's game.

Yep, that's exactly what I said.  

My question: "So who out of the current Orioles starters do you think will be in the rotation when they are hopefully contenders one day? "

Your answer: "Maybe Bradish, Wells and Zimmermann."

So you used a wobbly word in "maybe" to give you an out, but you said specifically those three. What did I miss?

I'm tryin to make a point here. Take off your orange colored glasses you are wearing in that post and truly think about it. Look at their stuff compared to contending team starters. Then tell me again, which one of the guys starting currently is going to be in a contending Orioles team rotation?

It's a hard question, but I think we as fans sometimes forget how good these contending team's starters are and how the ones we currently have are probably more 4th/5th/swingman types at best.

So when I hear fluff from Cora saying the pitching is legit, if he's talking about some or the relievers I agree. If he's talking about the starter's then you obviously have to wonder who. Bradish? maybe, Wells, eh, we'll see long term without missing bats, Zimmermann? Eh, 5th starter guy for me maybe on a good team. 

I just want people to take a step back and really analyze the current players and then see where the holes are. What do we need to do to fill these holes? Go on a spending spree through free agency? Trades (gotta give something up, where is our surplus?). Who in the system is putting up stats outside of Gunnar Henderson and maybe Kyle Stowers that screams major league regular?

I'm not picking on you here, this is more for everyone. Really think about things. Are we close? If so, tell me how we are close and what holes can be filled to make this .415 win percentage team a contender in the AL East?

[Barnaby Graves]

Just now, Frobby said:

Realistically, don’t most team’s announcers try to emphasize the positive?   They aren’t going to say or convey, “this team is not worth watching.”    That is not in the interest of the broadcaster, who wants people to watch the game.   So, part of the job is to find things that will keep the audience interested.   Trashing the team doesn’t accomplish this.  I don’t think the Orioles are dictating this to the broadcast crew; it’s in the nature of being a sports broadcaster.  

Now with that said, it does annoy me when the announcers trot out tired cliches and tropes like the “vibe” of the team, etc.   
 

The most honesty you're going to get out of an announcer is a Jim Palmer type.  The former player who had success, who's basically a professor emeritus of the organization, whose opinion is as close to unimpeachable as you can get and can just say whatever he wants.  That's the guy who can go out there and say that Chris Davis sucks and he's not working hard enough, or whatever.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You can't blame them for Aiken.

They had no way to know without a pre-draft physical.

Yea but he never amounted to anything.  Chanes are he was never going to.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

One thing that would help is if Elias/Sig spent draft capital on pitching talent. Maybe Elias thinks he can develop a surplus of position player talent and use that to acquire established veteran pitchers.       

Will Elias/Sig actually develop that surplus of player talent and will Elias have the budget to add a couple high priced starting pitchers to round out the starting rotation?

It's really important that Grayson Rodriguez and DL Hall become quality MLB starters and even if that happens it's still no guarantee the Orioles become a playoff team. 

That would require the O's to be willing to pay for that talent.

Have you seen anything that makes you think that might be the case?

I also don't think it is near as easy a thing to do as the Astros made it look, also the secret sauce (spin rate) isn't secret anymore.

[SteveA]

Wow, too bad I can't listen to radio at work.   Tony is going to be on 105.7 at 12:15, and he's fired up!

Vinnie and Haynie aren't going to know what hit them.

[Sydnor]

12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

The Grayson injury is the kick in the nuts after you've been punched in the gut and mouth continually as an Orioles fan. Is it only a delay, sure. But I'm tired of delays. I'm tired of prospects coming up and not performing. Where is a our rookie that comes out the gate like he belongs?

Where are our guys just cruising through the minors like they know they will be productive big leaguers. Henderson? Ok, who else? Stowers? Streaky as all heck but I do like his talent. Hall? Great talent, injury set him back especially command wise. Cowser?? Kjerstad?? lol Even Mayo who looked so amazing last year looks a bit lost in Aberdeen. 

Pitching? You want pitching prospects when Elias refuses to draft them? Good luck finding a guy to get excited about after Rajsich's picks.

Elias has had three top 5 #1 picks and has Rutschman, Kjerstad and Cowser to show for it to go along with historically bad losing across baseball since he took over. 

How deep is the system? I have a one pitch reliever #15 right now (not including the FCL and DSL guys).

But hey, this team has fight and has come so far!! lol

I think this is really important. I am not a scout, but have watched the minors to try to find some hope. 

I think Adley will be fine. Bradish has and continues to look like a bullpen arm. 

The Kjerstad draft can be evaluated in terms of the overall strategy. Westburg has picked up his performance, but is still striking out 27% of the time as a 23 year old in AA. Haskin looks like a 4th outfielder if things go right, as his numbers as a 23 year old in AA are more similar to what McKenna did in AA at 22 than what Mullins did in AA at 23. Servideo hasn’t played but seems to lack the power to be more than a utility infielder if everything goes right. As you said, Mayo seems a little lost and Baumler is just now starting is career in low A. Their development is key to the draft, and outside of Mayo’s tools, there isn’t a lot to be excited about.

To me, Cowser also looks lost and I don’t know whether it’s the increase in competition, a swing change, a change in approach recommended by the Orioles, or something else. If it is a swing change or change in approach recommended by the organization, prior regimes have been criticized for a one-size fits all approach to development. Nobody else from the 2021 draft has had a Hays-like first full season where they’ve really popped. Rhodes was off to a nice start, but is injured, and there are real questions about his power, and certainly wasn’t jumping out at you.

So we’re three drafts into the Elias regime, two of which involved them spreading the pool around to “get more bites at the apple,” and with respect to performance, it has been a fairly disappointing couple of months. If you want to trade Mullins/Santander/Hays, it might be a good deal, but who replaces them? Stowers seems promising, but he’s still striking out almost 24% of the time as a 24 year old in AAA. The team hasn’t shown that it’s going to spend money, so I think some disappointment at this point in the season is not unreasonable.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Yea but he never amounted to anything.  Chanes are he was never going to.

I don't care for this line of thinking at all.

Dude had a physical issue that Elias and co couldn't know about.  We don't know what his development might have been like if he hadn't had that issue.

Now if they had signed him anyway after finding out...

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

My question: "So who out of the current Orioles starters do you think will be in the rotation when they are hopefully contenders one day? "

Your answer: "Maybe Bradish, Wells and Zimmermann."

So you used a wobbly word in "maybe" to give you an out, but you said specifically those three. What did I miss?

I'm tryin to make a point here. Take off your orange colored glasses you are wearing in that post and truly think about it. Look at their stuff compared to contending team starters. Then tell me again, which one of the guys starting currently is going to be in a contending Orioles team rotation?

It's a hard question, but I think we as fans sometimes forget how good these contending team's starters are and how the ones we currently have are probably more 4th/5th/swingman types at best.

So when I hear fluff from Cora saying the pitching is legit, if he's talking about some or the relievers I agree. If he's talking about the starter's then you obviously have to wonder who. Bradish? maybe, Wells, eh, we'll see long term without missing bats, Zimmermann? Eh, 5th starter guy for me maybe on a good team. 

I just want people to take a step back and really analyze the current players and then see where the holes are. What do we need to do to fill these holes? Go on a spending spree through free agency? Trades (gotta give something up, where is our surplus?).

I'm not picking on, this is more for everyone. Really think about things. Are we close? If so, tell me how we are close and what holes can be filled to make this .415 win percentage team a contender in the AL East?

Thanks for the rundown of what you asked and what I said, I had a hard time remembering.  I can't wait for the moment in 2024 when we revisit this post and you hold my feet to the fire about Bradish, Zimmermann and Wells not being in the rotation.

Okay, Tony.  You win.  They all suck, everyone sucks, Elias sucks, Sig sucks, MASN sucks, there's no one on this roster that'll be here for the next contending team except Rutchman if he ever stops hitting like the 9th place hitter on a D3 women's softball team.  

 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

My question: "So who out of the current Orioles starters do you think will be in the rotation when they are hopefully contenders one day? "

Your answer: "Maybe Bradish, Wells and Zimmermann."

So you used a wobbly word in "maybe" to give you an out, but you said specifically those three. What did I miss?

I'm tryin to make a point here. Take off your orange colored glasses you are wearing in that post and truly think about it. Look at their stuff compared to contending team starters. Then tell me again, which one of the guys starting currently is going to be in a contending Orioles team rotation?

It's a hard question, but I think we as fans sometimes forget how good these contending team's starters are and how the ones we currently have are probably more 4th/5th/swingman types at best.

So when I hear fluff from Cora saying the pitching is legit, if he's talking about some or the relievers I agree. If he's talking about the starter's then you obviously have to wonder who. Bradish? maybe, Wells, eh, we'll see long term without missing bats, Zimmermann? Eh, 5th starter guy for me maybe on a good team. 

I just want people to take a step back and really analyze the current players and then see where the holes are. What do we need to do to fill these holes? Go on a spending spree through free agency? Trades (gotta give something up, where is our surplus?).

I'm not picking on, this is more for everyone. Really think about things. Are we close? If so, tell me how we are close and what holes can be filled to make this .415 win percentage team a contender in the AL East?

One of your favorite former posters, RSHack, made one good contribution in his time here and that was the idea of 15 players...That concept was that you need 3 legit starters, 3 legit relievers and your positional/DH guys.

The rest of the team is larger filler/dime a dozen guys and easily found/recycled.  Now, with the importance of the pen and the additional roster spot, maybe its 16 or even 17 guys now.  I think there is a lot of truth in that and probably pretty accurate, even for the elite contenders.

Going off of that concept, how many of those players do the Os have?

[SteveA]

13 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

And I'm not sure Elias has drafted or traded for a starter who will be in a contending team rotation one day (Baumler excluded because it's too early). 

When do we conclude that the Elias/Sig system is not very good at identifying and or developing future starters? 

That's been my biggest worry for over a year now.   Seeing guys like Lowther and Kremer, though maybe not great minor leaguers, totally crash and burn in the majors got me really starting to worry in 2021.   Seeing us go two years where we basically took no pitchers in the first 10 rounds of the draft has had me worried too.   I'm not convince we can just trade for the pitching we need.   And I seriously doubt this organization is going to spend big free agent money on pitching (and honestly that is usually a bad investment anyway).

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't care for this line of thinking at all.

Dude had a physical issue that Elias and co couldn't know about.  We don't know what his development might have been like if he hadn't had that issue.

Now if they had signed him anyway after finding out...

Right, you can't chalk Kjerstad up to dumb luck and not chalk others up to dumb luck as well.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't care for this line of thinking at all.

Dude had a physical issue that Elias and co couldn't know about.  We don't know what his development might have been like if he hadn't had that issue.

Now if they had signed him anyway after finding out...

Which they tried to do IIRC.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Which they tried to do IIRC.

Yep, they sure dodged a bullet.  Thankfully for them they didn't up the bid enough to get it done.

We also don't know how much input Elias had in that decision so it's a bit hard to assign him blame.

[interloper]

Some of y'all need to take a breath! It's going to be okay. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Right, you can't chalk Kjerstad up to dumb luck and not chalk others up to dumb luck as well.

How crazy would it be if it came out the Kjerstad issue was a per-existing condition?

 

The above is just a mental exercise and is not an accusation.