O's should be re-evaluating their training methods

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

His injury took place in late July and the season ended in early September so they made the decision not to even try to get him back before the season ended.   

So Hall had a lat strain in late July of 2019 but continued to pitch in two starts in August?   

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, wildcard said:

So Hall had a lat strain in late July of 2019 but continued to pitch in two starts in August?   

As mentioned in my last post, my memory of the timing was slightly off.  It was August 8, not late July.  What I remember clearly is that it was theoretically possible that he could have recovered in time to have 1-2 final appearances (the final game that year was on Sept. 2), but the O’s decided just to shut him down rather than push it.  

[Frobby]

59 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Remember when Elias at least made a suggestion that Grayson could break camp with the team in 2022? 

He pitched two innings before getting sent down.

Elias made that remark before spring training got delayed by a few weeks, which left an insufficient number of innings for guys not already on the 40.   And, Grayson’s one appearance didn’t go well.  

[Can_of_corn]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Elias made that remark before spring training got delayed by a few weeks, which left an insufficient number of innings for guys not already on the 40.   And, Grayson’s one appearance didn’t go well.  

Are you trying to say Grayson giving up runs in his second inning had ANYTHING to do with him getting sent down?

Do you think Elias works that way?

 

 

[now]

2 hours ago, emmett16 said:

You do what you can to stay strong and work appropriately, but the rest is pure luck.  

... as long as you don't do stupid things like sliding headfirst into first base, punching dugout walls, or hitting yourself on the head with your bat after striking out...

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, now said:

... as long as you don't do stupid things like sliding headfirst into first base, punching dugout walls, or hitting yourself on the head with your bat after striking out...

Fall asleep on a tanning bed.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are you trying to say Grayson giving up runs in his second inning had ANYTHING to do with him getting sent down?

Do you think Elias works that way?

I see you ignored my main point.  As to my second point, I have no idea what would have happened if Grayson had cruised in his first outing and struck out a bunch of guys.   He didn’t.  To be clear: 1.1 IP, 4 R, 4 ER, 3 H, 2 BB, 2 K’s.   That’s not going to get you a second look in an environment where innings are scarce.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I see you ignored my main point.  As to my second point, I have no idea what would have happened if Grayson had cruised in his first outing and struck out a bunch of guys.   He didn’t.  To be clear: 1.1 IP, 4 R, 4 ER, 3 H, 2 BB, 2 K’s.   That’s not going to get you a second look in an environment where innings are scarce.  

While I don't think the first point was the reason I do think it's a lot less ridiculous than your second point.

Your second point was nonsense.

What is more likely, given what we've seen, is that Elias had no intention of letting Grayson break camp on the ML roster.  It just wasn't something he was going to openly announce during the offseason.

[Moose Milligan]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Fall asleep on a tanning bed.

Marty Cordova was terrible.  

 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

While I don't think the first point was the reason I do think it's a lot less ridiculous than your second point.

Your second point was nonsense.

What is more likely, given what we've seen, is that Elias had no intention of letting Grayson break camp on the ML roster.  It just wasn't something he was going to openly announce during the offseason.

I always thought that it was, and should have been, a longshot that Grayson would make the OD roster.  But the shortened spring training coupled with his very bad initial outing got him sent back to MiL camp sooner than he would have if they’d had a full spring and he’d pitched well.  I definitely think he would have gotten more than one outing under other circumstances.   

To put things in perspective a little, nobody threw more than 11.1 innings this spring for the O’s, and only four pitchers made as many as two starts.   Last year the high was 19.2 innings and seven pitchers got two starts.   Very tough to squeeze in opportunities for a pitcher not on the 40-man who hasn’t  pitched in AAA in this year’s circumstances.  

Bottom line, we’ll never know what would have happened if the circumstances had been different.   I doubt he would have made the team, but won’t say it’s that impossible.   


 

[Just Regular]

8 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

They all break.  That wasn't just a silly thread. At some point most players get hurt, especially pitchers.

That said, I do think the Orioles have shown a very cautious approach with pitchers, and so far I see no evidence that this prevents injuries. 

One of the things I think I believe is that if you are a magnificent baseball pitching human like Stephen Strasburg or Jose Fernandez or Justin Verlander or I hope Grayson Rodriguez and DL Hall is that the unnaturalness of the very act means your elbow ligament (or worse, something else) isn't keeping together the entire first 40+ years of your life and it is more a question of When, not If.   

If you are Apollo personified like Verlander, maybe you make it to your late 30's and your post-surgical self is still awesome.    Fingers crossed Grayson and DL get to 30 with all their life's best pitches aiding these Adley teams.   Pitchers born this century will have the benefit of Motion Capture and probably near instantaneous intervention if even a couple few pitches start falling outside parameters.

Anecdotally, few bodies of pitches ever thrown have been as great as Jacob deGrom near age 30, and he was a position player until he was 22.   I am not sure Dylan Bundy or Nick Bitsko's life experiences are optimal for creating future deGroms.

[now]

3 hours ago, Just Regular said:

One of the things I think I believe is that if you are a magnificent baseball pitching human like Stephen Strasburg or Jose Fernandez or Justin Verlander or I hope Grayson Rodriguez and DL Hall is that the unnaturalness of the very act means your elbow ligament (or worse, something else) isn't keeping together the entire first 40+ years of your life and it is more a question of When, not If.   

If you are Apollo personified like Verlander, maybe you make it to your late 30's and your post-surgical self is still awesome.    Fingers crossed Grayson and DL get to 30 with all their life's best pitches aiding these Adley teams.   Pitchers born this century will have the benefit of Motion Capture and probably near instantaneous intervention if even a couple few pitches start falling outside parameters.

Anecdotally, few bodies of pitches ever thrown have been as great as Jacob deGrom near age 30, and he was a position player until he was 22.   I am not sure Dylan Bundy or Nick Bitsko's life experiences are optimal for creating future deGroms.

Which gets back to all those college bats in the draft. (Barring black swans like myocarditis, that is...)

[DrungoHazewood]

17 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Marty Cordova was terrible.  

Actually he was okay.  105 OPS+, average-ish defense in left. 

But he was archetypal of the 2002 Orioles, really that whole 1998-2011 era. 32-year-old free agent signed to fill a hole on a 67-win team with an average age of 29 and an unproductive farm team run by a GM whose best days were 25 years in the past.  He was signed post-firesale, so after selling off a bunch of old guys they went right back and signed a declining Grade C free agent to a 3-year deal.

Cordova wasn't a bad player, he just symbolized a franchise completely adrift.

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Actually he was okay.  105 OPS+, average-ish defense in left. 

But he was archetypal of the 2002 Orioles, really that whole 1998-2011 era. 32-year-old free agent signed to fill a hole on a 67-win team with an average age of 29 and an unproductive farm team run by a GM whose best days were 25 years in the past.  He was signed post-firesale, so after selling off a bunch of old guys they went right back and signed a declining Grade C free agent to a 3-year deal.

Cordova wasn't a bad player, he just symbolized a franchise completely adrift.

You're right, he wasn't as bad as I remember him being.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

49 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

You're right, he wasn't as bad as I remember him being.

Cordova was one of the poster children of the era where the O’s acquired higher priced veteran players because the farm system was failing to develop talent. 

David Segui was one of the moves that ticked me off because surprise, surprise a mid 30’s Segui spent more  time on the disabled list than he did playing.