O's are willing to move Tillman in right deal, per Roch

[Mackus]

I wonder if Tillman's name was thrown around in internal discussions about Peavy? Since it failed with the 3way between the Cubs' date=' maybe the O's thought they could land him themselves? What would work?

Tillman, Olson, and Reimold for Peavy? Maybe more? (Add Rowell/Snyder?)[/quote']I don't think the team would waste its time on any internal discussions about Peavy.

There obviously is a 0% chance he'd waive his NTC to come here. And conversations about Peavy are completely useless and a waste of time.

[EOGDOT]

I wonder if Tillman's name was thrown around in internal discussions about Peavy? Since it failed with the 3way between the Cubs' date=' maybe the O's thought they could land him themselves? What would work?

Tillman, Olson, and Reimold for Peavy? Maybe more? (Add Rowell/Snyder?)[/quote']

If we could land a bag of bats for Olson, I would consider it a positive.

[PaulBako]

If we could land a bag of bats for Olson, I would consider it a positive.

:laughlol:

Funny!

[statman]

I wonder if Tillman's name was thrown around in internal discussions about Peavy? Since it failed with the 3way between the Cubs' date=' maybe the O's thought they could land him themselves? What would work?

Tillman, Olson, and Reimold for Peavy? Maybe more? (Add Rowell/Snyder?)[/quote']

When I first looked at this thread, Peavy was what came to mind...Just an gut feeling. Peavy in an O's uniform would make my year.

[EOGDOT]

:laughlol:

Funny!

Paul Bako on the hang out? Humbled to be in the presence of greatness.

[EOGDOT]

When I first looked at this thread, Peavy was what came to mind...Just an gut feeling. Peavy in an O's uniform would make my year.

Take a gander at Peavys numbers away from home. Not all that good. Move him into the AL East? I'll pass at the required price tag.

[Cubsfan]

I wonder if Tillman's name was thrown around in internal discussions about Peavy? Since it failed with the 3way between the Cubs' date=' maybe the O's thought they could land him themselves? What would work?

Tillman, Olson, and Reimold for Peavy? [b']Maybe more?[/b] (Add Rowell/Snyder?)

You would have to add lots more. Of course, the point is moot since Peavy has a NTC and wants to stay in the NL. If he changed his mind about the AL, I'm sure it would be to go to a contender.

[Mackus]

All I argued, was that you could not look at the stats they put up in 2008, while taking into account their respective ages, and believe Arrieta has a higher upside.

I think this statement is accurate, but inherently flawed.

Stats are great tools for comparing major league players, but are not as useful for minor leaguers. Scouting is far more important than stats for determining how a minor leaguer will adjust to the majors or progress through the minors. Obviously the numbers are still important, but in the case of minor leaguers and making projections, they are secondary to the eyes of good scouts. Stats are more valuable than inexperienced scouting, for example if I went to a game and saw something, I'd trust what the numbers say over my eyes because I don't have the expertise that real scouts have. However if Stotle or Tony of some of the more scouty-types here said something that disagreed with what the numbers said, I'd trust their opinions.

[Palmer Esque]

I think this statement is accurate, but inherently flawed.

Stats are great tools for comparing major league players, but are not as useful for minor leaguers. Scouting is far more important than stats for determining how a minor leaguer will adjust to the majors or progress through the minors. Obviously the numbers are still important, but in the case of minor leaguers and making projections, they are secondary to the eyes of good scouts. Stats are more valuable than inexperienced scouting, for example if I went to a game and saw something, I'd trust what the numbers say over my eyes because I don't have the expertise that real scouts have. However if Stotle or Tony of some of the more scouty-types here said something that disagreed with what the numbers said, I'd trust their opinions.

That is the best post I have read on here in quite sometime.

Kudos.

I will take a great set of eyes over a computer spreadsheet any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

[ccbird]

IMO, Tillman's value as a prospect is very unlikely to be higher than it is now. If it is true that the O's value Arrieta more it's hinting to me that they believe Tillman might be a bit overrated and his prospect status more a result of putting up great numbers at his age in an advantaged league than pure stuff and ability.

By no means do I believe we should be actively shopping him but if the right deal presents itself I would certainly be willing to make him the centerpeice.

[Mackus]

That is the best post I have read on here in quite sometime.

Kudos.

I will take a great set of eyes over a computer spreadsheet any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Thanks. Bear in mind, though, that I'm talking strictly about minor leaguers and even moreso HS and college players about to be drafted. Once a guy has gotten enough time in the majors, a couple seasons, the stats tell the majority of the story.

But for younger guys, while stats are very useful, the confirmation from knowledgeable scouts that a guy will be able to continue his success at higher levels is what separates the best prospects from the average prospects. The guys who will continue to develop from the guys who will stagnate.

[Sports Guy]

Thanks. Bear in mind, though, that I'm talking strictly about minor leaguers and even moreso HS and college players about to be drafted. Once a guy has gotten enough time in the majors, a couple seasons, the stats tell the majority of the story.

But for younger guys, while stats are very useful, the confirmation from knowledgeable scouts that a guy will be able to continue his success at higher levels is what separates the best prospects from the average prospects. The guys who will continue to develop from the guys who will stagnate.

I don't care what scouts say, if a guy isn't K'ing anyone and is walking a lot and giving up homers, then his ranking and scouting report mean nothing to me.

They could have electric stuff but if it doesn't turn into getting people out and getting them in a way that will translate to the majors, they will have trouble surviving.

In other words, no way can you even remotely discount stats or age.

[GreekDude]

What about Matt Holliday !!! If I was to trade Tillman it would have to be from a class like him, Kemp, and even Grady. He is too young and good to give for guys im hearing like Grienke?????? He was depressed so bad for 2 years.

[Lucky Jim]

I don't care what scouts say, if a guy isn't K'ing anyone and is walking a lot and giving up homers, then his ranking and scouting report mean nothing to me.

They could have electric stuff but if it doesn't turn into getting people out and getting them in a way that will translate to the majors, they will have trouble surviving.

In other words, no way can you even remotely discount stats or age.

How did John Stephens turn out?

[Mackus]

I don't care what scouts say, if a guy isn't K'ing anyone and is walking a lot and giving up homers, then his ranking and scouting report mean nothing to me.

They could have electric stuff but if it doesn't turn into getting people out and getting them in a way that will translate to the majors, they will have trouble surviving.

In other words, no way can you even remotely discount stats or age.

I'm not discounting them stats, just saying they are less important than scouts opinions, which I have absolutely no doubt is the case.

Odds are that if a guy isn't doing the things you mentioned, then scouts aren't raving about his stuff. With hitters its more likely you'll see guys struggle performance-wise but still be highly regarded by scouts, with pitchers its more of a one-way road where both schools agree.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but in general, the views of intelligent scouts are a better basis for determining who will make it and who won't than statistics for minor leaguers. The closer you get to the majors, the more weight is given to the importance of stats and performance, though.