Would you take Jones Jr at full slot (or close to it) or Termarr Johnson at $1.5M under slot?

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You don’t draft for need but you can’t ignore it either.

Lets put it this way.  Even as a HSer, whoever they take with the first pick should be knocking on the door by 2025 if they are as good as what they believe.

So yea, I think you can look at our current situation and say, I think we are good at second base in 3 years.

Now, if you believe Johnson is the best player in this draft, you ignore that but I do think you consider it in strictly a we want to save money, who do we take thought process.

I think if you go way underslot, you take Collier.  Otherwise, Jones should be the pick with Holliday your next choice.

Collier?   Based on what?  Law has him at #2.   I don't think anyone has him anywhere close to that.    Here you have a player who most feel has the tools to stay at 3B.   That's his ceiling.  3B.     So why is Collier a superior pick to Johnson if they both save you the same amount?   Height?

[Sports Guy]

42 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Collier?   Based on what?  Law has him at #2.   I don't think anyone has him anywhere close to that.    Here you have a player who most feel has the tools to stay at 3B.   That's his ceiling.  3B.     So why is Collier a superior pick to Johnson if they both save you the same amount?   Height?

Age and position.  
 

I wouldn’t take him over Holliday or Jones but if the sole purpose was to obtain a high ceiling talent who will sign for less money, he is my pick.

 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Age and position.

He's about 5 months younger than Termarr Johnson.    

 

 Collier has an easy plus arm from the hot corner, with solid hands and defensive instincts as well, though he’ll need to maintain his body and lateral mobility to stick at the position. Scouts skeptical of his defense think he’ll eventually move to first base primarily because of mobility concerns at his physical peak.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

He's about 5 months younger than Termarr Johnson.    

 

 Collier has an easy plus arm from the hot corner, with solid hands and defensive instincts as well, though he’ll need to maintain his body and lateral mobility to stick at the position. Scouts skeptical of his defense think he’ll eventually move to first base primarily because of mobility concerns at his physical peak.

Ok

[Just Regular]

I believe the Sunday night has the first two rounds, so intentions will be declared.

Certainly the Yankees and Dodgers of the world would have the Sunday into Monday to read and react.   If other super-rich teams thought Cohen would try for twenty Gunnar Hendersons, I suppose around rounds 3, 4, 5 they would have the countermoves of drafting them themselves as "tough signs".    Andrew Friedman maybe wouldn't care about being unable to sign ordinary Day 2 picks as much as depriving future Mets of monopolizing stars.

As has been observed the supply of million dollar players isn't infinite, even if the Mets opt for a radical strategy.

Perhaps for Commissioner Manfred the problematic scenario is Cohen's actions breaking the dam of restraint by other top revenue Clubs.    Regular plug Friedman's Dodgers put $30mm into what Yusniel was hoped to be when he escaped the net of cost-controlled affiliation.

[RZNJ]

By the way, Baseball America updated their rankings on June 29 and they now have Jones with a 60 hit tool.

Termar Johnson

Tools: Hit: 70. Power: 60. Run: 45. Field: 50. Arm: 50.
 

Jones

Tools: Hit: 60. Power: 55. Run: 70. Field: 70. Arm: 65.

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I think if you go way underslot, you take Collier.  Otherwise, Jones should be the pick with Holliday your next choice.

I've seen Johnson has the lowest signing bonus demands of the top guys.  Not sure if Collier was included in that group though.  While Johnson has been pretty consistently ranked in the top 1-5 range, Collier's ranking has crept up from the teens and is still a pretty wide range of outcomes.  Have you seen anything that says Collier's bonus 'demands' are lower than Johnson's?  Could be based on the ranking range, but...  

[DocJJ]

My question seems to have gone of the rails somewhere....?   It's a simple yes or no:

 

I say Yes.  Who else says yes?

 

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, DocJJ said:

My question seems to have gone of the rails somewhere....?   It's a simple yes or no:

 

I say Yes.  Who else says yes?

 

Should have done a poll if all you wanted was yes or no.   Just saying.   

[jdwilde1]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

By the way, Baseball America updated their rankings on June 29 and they now have Jones with a 60 hit tool.

Termar Johnson

Tools: Hit: 70. Power: 60. Run: 45. Field: 50. Arm: 50.
 

Jones

Tools: Hit: 60. Power: 55. Run: 70. Field: 70. Arm: 65.

I am not sure what the Termarr’s run grade is based upon.  His 60-yard dash time is 6.65, which is above average for a middle infielder.  Also, his scouting reports indicate he is quick.  According to Fangraphs, he should be rated around 60 for his run grade. 
Jones, on the other hand, has truly elite speed, with a 6.31 60 yard dash.  I know that more than just raw dash times go into the run grade, but 45 seems wildly inaccurate.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/scouting-explained-the-20-80-scouting-scale/

Regardless, there are some who are calling Termarr the best prep hitting prospect in a decade (probably referencing Bryce Harper).  Take it for what it’s worth, but one scout (I believe Jim Callis) said he had the strike zone control of Wade Boggs and plate coverage of Vlad Sr. (Ridiculous, but he clearly sees a special bat).

https://www.mlb.com/news/termarr-johnson-guide

So, the question is, if he’s really  the best high school bat since Harper and plays an average 2B, would you take him 1-1?  Also, I wonder if he would be looked at differently if he was 6’2” instead of 5’9”ish.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, jdwilde1 said:

I am not sure what the Termarr’s run grade is based upon.  His 60-yard dash time is 6.65, which is above average for a middle infielder.  Also, his scouting reports indicate he is quick.  According to Fangraphs, he should be rated around 60 for his run grade. 
Jones, on the other hand, has truly elite speed, with a 6.31 60 yard dash.  I know that more than just raw dash times go into the run grade, but 45 seems wildly inaccurate.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/scouting-explained-the-20-80-scouting-scale/

Regardless, there are some who are calling Termarr the best prep hitting prospect in a decade (probably referencing Bryce Harper).  Take it for what it’s worth, but one scout (I believe Jim Callis) said he had the strike zone control of Wade Boggs and plate coverage of Vlad Sr. (Ridiculous, but he clearly sees a special bat).

https://www.mlb.com/news/termarr-johnson-guide

So, the question is, if he’s really  the best high school bat since Harper and plays an average 2B, would you take him 1-1?  Also, I wonder if he would be looked at differently if he was 6’2” instead of 5’9”ish.

Harper wasn't a prep prospect.

[jdwilde1]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Harper wasn't a prep prospect.

That’s right, he got his GED after 10th grade or something like that.  I forgot about that.  Good catch.

[Sports Guy]

43 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

I've seen Johnson has the lowest signing bonus demands of the top guys.  Not sure if Collier was included in that group though.  While Johnson has been pretty consistently ranked in the top 1-5 range, Collier's ranking has crept up from the teens and is still a pretty wide range of outcomes.  Have you seen anything that says Collier's bonus 'demands' are lower than Johnson's?  Could be based on the ranking range, but...  

No but common sense says his demands will be lower considering he will be in the 4-12 range.

May not be lower than johnson..I don’t know but I also don’t care.  I think it’s a stupid thought process anyway.

 

[RZNJ]

31 minutes ago, jdwilde1 said:

I am not sure what the Termarr’s run grade is based upon.  His 60-yard dash time is 6.65, which is above average for a middle infielder.  Also, his scouting reports indicate he is quick.  According to Fangraphs, he should be rated around 60 for his run grade. 
Jones, on the other hand, has truly elite speed, with a 6.31 60 yard dash.  I know that more than just raw dash times go into the run grade, but 45 seems wildly inaccurate.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/scouting-explained-the-20-80-scouting-scale/

Regardless, there are some who are calling Termarr the best prep hitting prospect in a decade (probably referencing Bryce Harper).  Take it for what it’s worth, but one scout (I believe Jim Callis) said he had the strike zone control of Wade Boggs and plate coverage of Vlad Sr. (Ridiculous, but he clearly sees a special bat).

https://www.mlb.com/news/termarr-johnson-guide

So, the question is, if he’s really  the best high school bat since Harper and plays an average 2B, would you take him 1-1?  Also, I wonder if he would be looked at differently if he was 6’2” instead of 5’9”ish.

I think they consider him a 50 runner now (average) and a 45 runner (tick below average) in the future.   I saw video of him running along with another prospect.   He didn't look slow but the other kid beat him by a good 5-10 feet.   

If they are right about his hit tool and he's an average 2B then he's a legitimate #1 pick even if there's not a big savings.    The biggest question is how much of the hit tool is hype and how much is the real deal.   Again, I've seen video where he looks fantastic in a batting practice session but I saw him look pretty human against Brock Porter and a LHP in a showcase game.   I'm skeptical which is why I would still go Druw Jones.   However, like I've said before, if the Orioles take him I'm going to hope they are right about his hit tool and my skepticism was unfounded.

[DocJJ]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Should have done a poll if all you wanted was yes or no.   Just saying.   

I'd love to.  I don't see an option to do that anywhere....?