Jorge Lopez traded to Twins for pitching prospects (edit)

[Aristotelian]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We missed the playoffs by two games last year.  Khreibel and Reed were terrible in August/September, post the Lopez trade.  I guess selling and narrowly missing the playoffs have no connection at all.  

When you miss the playoffs by only two games you start to reflect back at what could've gone differently.  If not for cost control, we could've had Adley up here sooner(we lost that extra year because of ROY voting), and we could've had Lopez.  

Also, trading Lopez led us to signing Givens.  So Elias compounded that error.  Cano becoming Eric Gagne wasn't predicted or he would've been given more looks in ST.  I'm glad we got lucky, but we got lucky as all get out.  

We missed by 3 games, plus Tampa owned the tie breaker, so really 4 games. You are also missing the fact that Lopez was hardly better than Krehbiel down the stretch and hardly better than Givens recently! 

 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We missed the playoffs by two games last year.  Khreibel and Reed were terrible in August/September, post the Lopez trade.  I guess selling and narrowly missing the playoffs have no connection at all.  

When you miss the playoffs by only two games you start to reflect back at what could've gone differently.  If not for cost control, we could've had Adley up here sooner(we lost that extra year because of ROY voting), and we could've had Lopez.  

Also, trading Lopez led us to signing Givens.  So Elias compounded that error.  Cano becoming Eric Gagne wasn't predicted or he would've been given more looks in ST.  I'm glad we got lucky, but we got lucky as all get out.  

Yeah, we’re lucky we traded Lopez when we did.  Givens was probably signed because of Tate’s injury and the he came up lame as well.   Cano=good luck.  Tate +Givens= bad luck.  Trading Lopez for Nunez, Rojas, Povich, and Cano= good luck.
 

Are you the one in the other threads complaining about our guys running too hard to 1B?  LOL

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Yeah, we’re lucky we traded Lopez when we did.  Givens was probably signed because of Tate’s injury and the he came up lame as well.   Cano=good luck.  Tate +Givens= bad luck.  Trading Lopez for Nunez, Rojas, Povich, and Cano= good luck.
 

Are you the one in the other threads complaining about our guys running too hard to 1B?  LOL

Mateo - Hip injury running to 1st base in the 9th inning when we were losing.

Urias - Knee injury running to 1st base in the 9th inning when we were losing.

Mullins - Groin injury running to 1st base in the 8th inning when we were losing.

Gunnar - back injury running to 1st base in the 9th inning in a game where we were up by 1.

FYI.

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Mateo - Hip injury running to 1st base in the 9th inning when we were losing.

Urias - Knee injury running to 1st base in the 9th inning when we were losing.

Mullins - Groin injury running to 1st base in the 8th inning when we were losing.

Gunnar - back injury running to 1st base in the 9th inning in a game where we were up by 1.

FYI.

So what?   This post is beneath you, I hope.  Do you want Mullins not running 100% after fly balls when we’re losing also?   It’s random.  They could have just as easily been hurt in games we were tied in. 

[Tony-OH]

58 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I find this post extremely ironic, since you are the one who bumped this thread after the bullpen had a couple of bad days in early April.   Live by the bump, die by the bump.   

For me, the trade is yesterday’s news and I’d be happy to relegate updates on Lopez’s performance to the ex-Orioles thread in the MLB forum.   
 

"Live by the bump, die by the bump" - Frobby

I think this is a new classic! 

[Tony-OH]

44 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Huh?? Our bullpen would be way worse right now if we hadn’t made the trade. We’d just be substituting Lopez for Cano. That’s a big downgrade. Plus we wouldn’t have Povich. Not sure why you keep arguing this ridiculous point. Just take the L and move on. 

I'm not even quite sure how this can be an argument with literal facts like this. 

[sportsfan8703]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

So what?   This post is beneath you, I hope.  Do you want Mullins not running 100% after fly balls when we’re losing also?   It’s random.  They could have just as easily been hurt in games we were tied in. 

Just think about it.  They are running balls to the wall.  100% max output.  All to land on a bag.  Why?  Why do we have pitchers on pitch counts?  Why do we use certain pitchers in low leverage?  

I think it's a selfish play to run that hard to first when we're losing big.  It's a 162 game season.  We have only four significant injuries this year, and they've all happened on this type of play.  

This has long been a criticism for Hays diving in the OF.  Gotta know when to hold them and when to fold them.  

Why baby the pitchers, but the position players can do whatever they want?

[sportsfan8703]

33 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

We missed by 3 games, plus Tampa owned the tie breaker, so really 4 games. You are also missing the fact that Lopez was hardly better than Krehbiel down the stretch and hardly better than Givens recently! 

 

We all take the L.  We were winning last year for the first time since 2016 and Elias decided to sell our 2nd best reliever on a team that relies heavily on relievers.  I bet we could get a haul for Bautista and Cano?  Should we do those trades?  We could just call up Krheibel and rely on Givens.  Same thing.  

[sportsfan8703]

33 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

We missed by 3 games, plus Tampa owned the tie breaker, so really 4 games. You are also missing the fact that Lopez was hardly better than Krehbiel down the stretch and hardly better than Givens recently! 

 

We all take the L.  We were winning last year for the first time since 2016 and Elias decided to sell our 2nd best reliever on a team that relies heavily on relievers.  I bet we could get a haul for Bautista and Cano?  Should we do those trades?  We could just call up Krheibel and rely on Givens.  Same thing.  

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think it's a selfish play to run that hard to first when we're losing big. 

I have three letters for this comment.

W...T...F...

Holy crap man. This may be one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard. Players get hurt all the time. Do you really just want guys out there loafing around when the team is down? I mean I get not diving for balls when the team is down a bunch but running hard? If a professional athlete can't run hard without getting hurt all the time, they probably should not be a professional athlete.

Sometimes guys tweak things, it happens. Calling them selfish for trying their best is something I don't think I've ever heard. 

[Sports Guy]

36 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

We missed by 3 games, plus Tampa owned the tie breaker, so really 4 games. You are also missing the fact that Lopez was hardly better than Krehbiel down the stretch and hardly better than Givens recently! 

 

And again, you have zero idea how he would have done had he not been traded.

Also, he really had 2 bad outings with Min last year that made his numbers look worse.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We all take the L.  We were winning last year for the first time since 2016 and Elias decided to sell our 2nd best reliever on a team that relies heavily on relievers.  I bet we could get a haul for Bautista and Cano?  Should we do those trades?  We could just call up Krheibel and rely on Givens.  Same thing.  

It's not even the same thing and you really are being quite silly at this point. Maybe you should think about moving on to another subject. You are repeating things that people have clearly showed you is wrong. 

I mean, feel free to dig in, but man, you are really dying on your sword here.

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I have three letters for this comment.

W...T...F...

Holy crap man. This may be one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard. Players get hurt all the time. Do you really just want guys out there loafing around when the team is down? I mean I get not diving for balls when the team is down a bunch but running hard? If a professional athlete can't run hard without getting hurt all the time, they probably should not be a professional athlete.

Sometimes guys tweak things, it happens. Calling them selfish for trying their best is something I don't think I've ever heard. 

It's called load management.  Athletes and teams are starting to catch on.  Play to the situation. These guys weren't even the tie-ing or go ahead runs. Why not head first slide everytime into first base?   

[Aristotelian]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

We all take the L.  We were winning last year for the first time since 2016 and Elias decided to sell our 2nd best reliever on a team that relies heavily on relievers.  I bet we could get a haul for Bautista and Cano?  Should we do those trades?  We could just call up Krheibel and rely on Givens.  Same thing.  

Elias sold on a player who was outperforming his track record. We objectively had a pretty low chance of making the playoffs and that move did not make the difference. Hard to deal in counterfactuals but there is certainly a world in which we keep Lopez, still come up short, and then we are a .500ish club again with Cano pitching lights out for the Twins. 

We have a much higher chance of making the playoffs this year. Bautista and Cano also have more years of control and will be cheaper for longer than Lopez. Different situation and different players. I expect Elias to play this deadline much differently. 

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And again, you have zero idea how he would have done had he not been traded.

Also, he really had 2 bad outings with Min last year that made his numbers look worse.

We have 100% idea how Lopez has actually pitched and there’s no need to cherry pick.   He has 50 appearances as a Twin.  The numbers are plain to see.   You can see last year and this year how they started losing confidence in him.   
 

We don’t know how he would have done if he hadn’t been traded?   We have a pretty good idea.