Henderson, Hall, Westburg, and Stowers - Potential unintended consequence of the new service time rules?

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Tony mentions that this year is house money for Elias and I agree…but when you think about it, the arrogance of that thought is crazy.

You never know when you will have chances to win.  The Orioles could look great on paper next year and have bad luck and not be as good.

Not to mention, the potential revenue you gain by making the playoffs.

I don’t see how you don’t go for this.  I have been someone who hasn’t been a believer in this team but the reality is they are right there and showing no signs of slowing down.

You can’t assume these chances will just readily be there.  Dan Marino talked about how he thought he was going to go to Super Bowls all the time after going early in his career..he never went again.

 

I think this is a very fair point.  But Elias seems to be a guy who has a plan and doesn’t deviate from it.  That said, I’m not going to assume that (1) he won’t call up any of the top prospects who haven’t started their service clocks yet, or (2) he’ll definitely wait until after there are fewer than 45 days remaining.  We’ll see.  Meanwhile, the team keeps winning.   7-1 since the Mancini deadline trade.  And Vavra is playing pretty regularly.

[Sports Guy]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think this is a very fair point.  But Elias seems to be a guy who has a plan and doesn’t deviate from it.  That said, I’m not going to assume that (1) he won’t call up any of the top prospects who haven’t started their service clocks yet, or (2) he’ll definitely wait until after there are fewer than 45 days remaining.  We’ll see.  Meanwhile, the team keeps winning.   7-1 since the Mancini deadline trade.  And Vavra is playing pretty regularly.

I’m sure there is some thinking that says, I don’t need to bring anyone up since the team is winning.  The thing is, getting these guys time now could help a month from now.  
 

You are winning now but you can’t say for sure that you will be in 2-4 weeks and getting these guys up now I think is important.   Every game counts.  

This whole “won’t deviate from his plan” bs needs to end.  The plan has changed because the team had changed it for him.  You don’t give up this chance because you didn’t know it was coming.  We aren’t talking about trading a bunch of prospects for a rental or anything like that.

We are talking about calling up deserving players to play a role in trying to win right now, while also gaining valuable long term experience that will help execute that plan that Elias is clutching onto like his balls.

 

[sportsfan8703]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think this is a very fair point.  But Elias seems to be a guy who has a plan and doesn’t deviate from it.  That said, I’m not going to assume that (1) he won’t call up any of the top prospects who haven’t started their service clocks yet, or (2) he’ll definitely wait until after there are fewer than 45 days remaining.  We’ll see.  Meanwhile, the team keeps winning.   7-1 since the Mancini deadline trade.  And Vavra is playing pretty regularly.

I guess the 45 days, and remaining rookie eligible for 2023, is the wildcard. Elias could gamble that Gunnar finishes top 3 in RoY next year. Then we get Gunnar at 3B and Urias at 2B. 

[btdart20]

11 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

This post reeks of assumptions.

No more than your post I was responding to.

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

No more than your post I was responding to.

That post didn’t assume anything.  That post talked about how precious these chances are and you don’t know how often they will come along.  That’s 100% accurate.  You can’t logically argue against that.

[btdart20]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That post didn’t assume anything.  That post talked about how precious these chances are and you don’t know how often they will come along.  That’s 100% accurate.  You can’t logically argue against that.

My post showed that Marino is proof that our shots on goal need to be built on a better system than a hope and a prayer.  That’s 100% accurate as well.  Bills and Broncos had better teams and systems in place.  You can’t logically argue against that either.  

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

My post showed that Marino is proof that our shots on goal need to be built on a better system than a hope and a prayer.  That’s 100% accurate as well.  Bills and Broncos had better teams and systems in place.  You can’t logically argue against that either.  

Your post seemed to imply that these things will happen and we will be contenders year in and year our.  If that wasn’t then intention, I agree with what you are saying.

[geschinger]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think this is a very fair point.  But Elias seems to be a guy who has a plan and doesn’t deviate from it.  

I think this is exactly right.

I know we often discount GM-speak but I think he told us the truth about his approach is to stick to the plan when he said this:

Quote

“This is not something, obviously, where we're putting all of our chips and all this work that we've been doing around the organization for the past 3 1/2 to four years into the second half of 2022,” Elias said. “This is a decade-long window that I think is opening up, and I couldn't be more excited about it for Baltimore, for the Orioles, for these guys.

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by geschinger

[Sports Guy]

The window is open.  The rebuild is and has been over.  I have been saying that for a year.

The window doesn’t close because you bring up your better younger prospects who can help you win now.

[LookinUp]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The window is open.  The rebuild is and has been over.  I have been saying that for a year.

The window doesn’t close because you bring up your better younger prospects who can help you win now.

What is the rule?

If we bring up Henderson now, do we lose a year of control versus bringing him up at the end of the year?

Or is this just about whether he's eligible for awards next year that would net a draft pick the year after?

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

What is the rule?

If we bring up Henderson now, do we lose a year of control versus bringing him up at the end of the year?

Or is this just about whether he's eligible for awards next year that would net a draft pick the year after?

The second part.  If we bring him now or on OD, the service time is the same.  
 

[sportsfan8703]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

The second part.  If we bring him now or on OD, the service time is the same.  
 

So we could bring him up right now and still get 6 full years of control after this year?

[BohKnowsBmore]

13 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

What is the rule?

If we bring up Henderson now, do we lose a year of control versus bringing him up at the end of the year?

Or is this just about whether he's eligible for awards next year that would net a draft pick the year after?

The latter 

[BohKnowsBmore]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

So we could bring him up right now and still get 6 full years of control after this year?

Correct 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

So we could bring him up right now and still get 6 full years of control after this year?

Yes.  We could have brought him on April 25 and he still would have 6 years of time.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Sports Guy