I don't want to become the Rays

[Orioles Jim]

24 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Not their homegrown pitchers. They had one homegrown pitcher and they acquired the rest through free agency and trades.

Technically, I think in 1998/1999, when their rotation was Pettitte/Irabu/El Duque that that would mean 3/5 of their starting rotation was homegrown.

 

 

[Frobby]

On 8/12/2022 at 8:40 AM, Aglets said:

I think we all want to "become" the Baltimore Orioles that win championships.  Distinct from the Baltimore Orioles that haven't won a pennant in almost 40 years.   You can do it the way the Rays have, the way the Yankees have, the way the Dodgers have........... there are multiple paths to do it.

We took Elias away from the Astros..............guess whose blueprint he is trying to follow (or improve on) here?

Will people here be ok with that?   The Astros have made it to the ALCS for 5 straight years, winning 3 pennants, and 1 World Series.   Not saying we are guaranteed to have that level of success at all..............as people say, there is a lot of luck when it comes to success in short series.   But I would be..........pretty pleased if we are in that ballpark.

I’d sign for that in blood!

[Frobby]

23 hours ago, winning said:

Guys, this Major League Baseball. The Buck (no pun intended) stops here! Winning the World Series. That is what it's about. The only thing that accounts. This is the highest level league in the world. The only objective is to win the World Series. 

In the Minors you develop future talent for the MLB team. That's why they call it a farm. College baseball is about getting a scholarship and getting a degree. High school baseball is extracurricular. Independent Leagues and Beer Leagues are for guys who want to have fun after they leave the office. 

Again, this is Major League Baseball. If you're not here to win the World Series or rebuild for a future run. Then stop watching. Turn off the TV if you're a fan. Or quit baseball if you're a player. 

We have had this discussion before.  So I guess In your mind you’d rather have been a Royals fan than a Cardinals fan over the last 10 years, because the Royals won a World Series while the Cardinals didn’t.   Well, you’re entitled to feel that way, but that’s not how I feel at all.  Sure I desperately want to win a World Series, but what I really want is to go through a 162 game season every year feeling like my team has a decent shot to win a World Series.  I’d rather root for a team that goes to the playoffs six times in ten years and is in the race every year than one that is bad to really terrible more than half the time but puts it all together and gets the postseason breaks one season.  I watch baseball 6-7 months a year every year, not two weeks in October.  

[Frobby]

Some really good discussion in this thread.  Every team has its own economics and it’s own competitive environment.  We’re not going to be exactly the Tampa model or exactly the Houston model.  It’s going to be a mix - lock some guys up long term, trade other guys a year too early, and hopefully be better than average at choosing and developing young players. Payroll significantly higher than Tampa’s, significantly lower than Houston’s.  But the key is being good at choosing and developing talent.   Payroll doesn’t matter if a team isn’t good at that.  

[orioles22]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

We have had this discussion before.  So I guess In your mind you’d rather have been a Royals fan than a Cardinals fan over the last 10 years, because the Royals won a World Series while the Cardinals didn’t.   Well, you’re entitled to feel that way, but that’s not how I feel at all.  Sure I desperately want to win a World Series, but what I really want is to go through a 162 game season every year feeling like my team has a decent shot to win a World Series.  I’d rather root for a team that goes to the playoffs six times in ten years and is in the race every year than one that is bad to really terrible more than half the time but puts it all together and gets the postseason breaks one season.  I watch baseball 6-7 months a year every year, not two weeks in October.  

 

Excellent. I've had this discussion in other sports on other levels. One random championship is not as good as being in the chase every  year. The one thing I don't want to copy from the Rays is losing top players every year. I want a core of guys who are there for their entire careers - like Palmer, Brooks, Cal....

[ExileAngelos]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:36 AM, glenn__davis said:

As Drungo mentioned, winning in the postseason in baseball is as much about luck as it is anything else.   If you build a team that can win 90+ games you've got about as good a shot as anyone.

Which is why it is an absolute travesty they expanded the playoffs.

[NCRaven]

In five years, rebuilding teams will be looking to the Baltimore model.

[jrobb21613]

I don't believe the Orioles to be as small a market team as the Rays but sure as hell not as big as the Yankees. The O's not under Elias as of now have spent money in the past. With Elias and Sig coming from Houston I believe that is the process we are following. Houston developed a lot of their pitching in house. In 2017 they signed Charlie Morton and at the deadline traded for Verlander who put them over the top. 

Whose going to be our Charlie Morton and Justin Verlander next year? 

[oriolediehard]

I want the O's to be like Earl Weaver's teams. They were a extremely smart teams and organization.  I hope these O's will achieve that goal. I feel the O's are heading in that direction.  Not much luck, more skill and intelligence than luck.

[7Mo]

9 minutes ago, jrobb21613 said:

I don't believe the Orioles to be as small a market team as the Rays but sure as hell not as big as the Yankees. The O's not under Elias as of now have spent money in the past. With Elias and Sig coming from Houston I believe that is the process we are following. Houston developed a lot of their pitching in house. In 2017 they signed Charlie Morton and at the deadline traded for Verlander who put them over the top. 

Whose going to be our Charlie Morton and Justin Verlander next year? 

My guess for the Morton equivalent is someone like Jose Quintana, Tyler Anderson, Corey Kluber, Taijuan Walker, Chris Bassett, Cole Irvin, Zach Eflin, Jake Odorizzi, Jamison Taillon. 

But I also believe Elias and crew are evaluating in terms of what they can add to the existing guy with data unavailable to us. 

[Jim'sKid26]

Aside from the presence of Elias and Sig, why do folks think the Orioles will operate anything like the Astros? The AL East is very different from the AL West. The Os operate in a market that is very different from Houston. The difference in ownership groups is night and day. I think the Orioles will have to come up with a unique plan that fits their specific set of circumstances.

By the way, you could insert Rays for Astros and the above argument is still valid.

[GuidoSarducci]

I can kind of understand this sentiment in that the Rays aren't going to ever have a franchise type player that is a star and plays there the whole length of their career.  In this era of mega contracts, they won't / can't afford to pay them.  

Baltimore has iconic figures like Cal and Jim and Brooks, who were stars and played there the whole careers.   So if we go down the TBR path, its unlikely we'll ever see that again.   Not really talking about equaling those players in caliber, but more about them sticking around here until they retire and at being "the guy" here while they do it.  The best we could do is have another guy like Adam Jones, or Brian Roberts who were stars but had shorter careers so they didn't go somewhere else.

[GuidoSarducci]

2 hours ago, ExileAngelos said:

Which is why it is an absolute travesty they expanded the playoffs.

If the Barves can win a crap division with 88 wins while teams with 90+ wins are sitting home, I'm all for it it.

[jabba72]

1 minute ago, GuidoSarducci said:

I can kind of understand this sentiment in that the Rays aren't going to ever have a franchise type player that is a star and plays there the whole length of their career.  In this era of mega contracts, they won't / can't afford to pay them.  

Baltimore has iconic figures like Cal and Jim and Brooks, who were stars and played there the whole careers.   So if we the TBR path, its unlikely we'll ever see that again.   Not really talking about equaling those players in caliber, but more about them sticking around here until they retire and at being "the guy" here while they do it.  The best we could do is have another guy like Adam Jones, or Brian Roberts who were stars but had shorter careers so they didn't go somewhere else.

The Rays signed Wander Franco to a 11 year deal. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TBD/tampa-bay-rays-salaries-and-contracts.shtml

There are worse things in baseball than being the Rays. Like Baltimore from 99 to 2011.

[jabba72]

2 hours ago, NCRaven said:

In five years, rebuilding teams will be looking to the Baltimore model.

I think alot of GM's want to find out what the O's are doing, right now.  And most of the talent is still in the minor leagues.