2023 Rotation

[Roll Tide]

18 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Watkins has options.  I think they keep him as 40 man roster depth.

I would ..but maybe they can get an offer that you can’t turn down for one of these guys.

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Watched a bit of Nick Lodolo of the Reds today, 24 yo in his first year.  Very impressive.  Probably what we hope Cade Povich becomes one day.

The Reds have very little at the ML level besides Hunter Greene and Lodolo and some prospects on the way.  Was just thinking if we could match up with them in a 3 for 1 type of deal that might entice them.

Some possible offers.

1. Kremer, Westburg, Stowers

2. Hall, Stowers, Norby (I would try to not include Hall)

3. Bradish, Cowser, Mayo

Lots of risk trading for a pitcher but Lodolo was a #7 overall pick with impressive minor league numbers, big kid, smooth mechanics, with strikeout stuff.

You have to give up something to get something.  Any of these packages enough?  Too much?

I wouldn’t trade the third package for him.

As for if they are enough or not…who knows?  Meaning, would the Reds even entertain trading him?  He took him 7th overall, so they obviously like him.  A team like them doesn’t usually trade away guys like this.

OToH, they need talent and aren’t contending with him anytime soon.

The overall issue is that he has had a lot of injury issues already.  He missed time this year because of his back.  Last year, he had blister issues and his season ended early because of a shoulder issue.

He only threw 81 MiL innings and won’t throw many this year either.

He is a few years away from him being able to be stretched out and then you have to worry about health.

Hes a gamble but I would rather have him than Hall?  Yea I would.  But how much do you put with Hall with all the other issues he has?  

 

[Flash- bd]

So, assuming we acquire a higher level SP, who would be your odd man out of:

 

Wells, Voth, Kremer, Bradish, Grayson (acquired pitcher would be 6th), Means when he comes can take over for the worst performer / injured of the 6, or be eased in as a long man. 

 

I guess I would probably rank them currently:

1. Voth

2. Wells

3. Kremer

4. Bradish

Though Bradish arguably has the best pure stuff of all of them.

*Don't rank Grayson because he's obviously the best arm of all and needs to be planned around. 

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Flash- bd said:

So, assuming we acquire a higher level SP, who would be your odd man out of:

 

Wells, Voth, Kremer, Bradish, Grayson (acquired pitcher would be 6th), Means when he comes can take over for the worst performer / injured of the 6, or be eased in as a long man. 

 

I guess I would probably rank them currently:

1. Voth

2. Wells

3. Kremer

4. Bradish

Though Bradish arguably has the best pure stuff of all of them.

*Don't rank Grayson because he's obviously the best arm of all and needs to be planned around. 

At this point, it's Bradish for me.  Bradish's slider and GB% would play up in the BP. 

[Frobby]

21 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

No ….earn the promotion. Promoting guys before they are ready ( mostly out of desperation) is the old Orioles way from the 90s on. If he progresses in two years in the minors them he may not need 2 years of learning at the big leads. Or maybe you go with the Akin role but why rush him when he’s clearly not ready?

Did the best I could considering the injury but he was dominant before the injury in 2002. Much better than Hall 

I can’t help but believe that Hall was rushed as Elias caved to the whining fans

Zero chance that anything Elias did was because of the fans, IMO.

[Three Run Homer]

Maybe I missed something, but is there a reliable estimate of when Means could come back next season, or are we just speculating?  

The development of cheap, controllable good starting pitching depth is the biggest surprise of the season.  I think we would improve our chances of contending next season if we signed one front-line starter, but I would let Lyles leave and I don't think we need to sign multiple free agent starters.  

[Roll Tide]

53 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Zero chance that anything Elias did was because of the fans, IMO.

Hope your right but can’t believe he was that far off on Hall

[RZNJ]

Obviously, we need to see how the season and winter play out.

1. Wells

2. Kremer

3. Rodriguez 

4. Bradish

5. Voth

6. Watkins

7. Hall

8. Baumann

9. Zimmerman 

This is without Lyles and without the #1 pitcher most people want.

The performance of this pitching staff is making the additional of two veteran pitchers seem unnecessary.   It’s also starting to make Lyles possible rotation spot in jeopardy.  The next question is, how bad do you think that Elias feels he needs to go out and get starters for next year.  

And you have Means coming back at some point AND Povich possibly ready at some point.

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by RZNJ

[jamalshw]

47 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Obviously, we need to see how the season and winter play out.

1. Wells

2. Kremer

3. Rodriguez 

4. Bradish

5. Voth

6. Watkins

7. Hall

8. Baumann

9. Zimmerman 

This is without Lyles and without the #1 pitcher most people want.

The performance of this pitching staff is making the additional of two veteran pitchers seem unnecessary.   It’s also starting to make Lyles possible rotation spot in jeopardy.  The next question is, how bad do you think that Elias feels he needs to go out and get starters for next year.  

And you have Means coming back at some point AND Povich possibly ready at some point.

 

Good. Depth is always needed, especially with starting pitchers. Zimmermann and Baumann a the bottom of your list still have options (I believe) so they can be stashed in AAA. They've also both had spotty seasons so it's justifiable for them to stay down as well. Rom and Povich will continue to develop as well adding to the depth. As you noted, Means may be back midseason, but you don't really need to account for him yet as there could be setbacks and almost certainly will be injuries/underperformances before he's ready. 

As for the other seven, I think it's fair to pencil in Rodriguez and Wells. I would add a TOR arm to it as well, leaving them with two rotation spots. I wouldn't be opposed to sticking Watkins in a long-relief spot (similar to what they did with Akins this year where he goes multiple innings on a pseudo schedule). And, I'm wondering if Hall may be best to convert into a dominant reliever with his stuff (though the command worries me). 

For the final two spots in the rotation, I let Kremer, Bradish and Voth fight it out in the spring and if everyone stays healthy and looks good, I wouldn't be opposed to a 6-man staff for the first few weeks, particularly given Rodriguez will be on an innings limit and a few others may as well. That could help keep them fresh for what we hope to be a run deep into October. 

[Sports Guy]

Bradish is on a roll since coming back from his injury but overall, his numbers show a pitcher that isn’t a starter. 

That said, he may be changing that.

He’s the wild card for me.

Have to add a real legit mid to TOR starter. 

[Aristotelian]

With this depth, Wells could go back to the bullpen where he has already been effective. Since the Jorge trade the bullpen feels a little thing. I'd like having Wells if something should happen to any of the big three. If needed in the rotation he could be stretched out later. 

[Jim'sKid26]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Bradish is on a roll since coming back from his injury but overall, his numbers show a pitcher that isn’t a starter. 

That said, he may be changing that.

He’s the wild card for me.

Have to add a real legit mid to TOR starter. 

I think that the depth outlined in several posts here may be a bit of a mirage.  I do not think Baumann is a starter.  To me his ceiling is a back of the bullpen power arm.  Zimmerman and Watkins do not have the stuff to be in a championship caliber starting 5.  I agree that Bradish is a wild card and I would add that Wells is too.  Kremer and Voth are both pitching well right now.  Do the Orioles bank on them delivering quality innings moving forward?  Rodriguez and Hall are both unproven and fragile. Lyles is a proven starter who has delivered consistently over several years.  I think you pencil him in without a 2nd thought.

 

The biggest decision is who the Orioles target in free agency and whether they can land their catch.  If it were up to me I would begin my conversation with Verlander and his agent at the first opportunity possible.

[Moose Milligan]

Hard not to get my hopes up about Bradish due to this little run he's been on.  

[Sports Guy]

I will say this…there is no one in the current rotation that I feel overly confident about in terms of being an average or better starter in 2023.

I think they have several guys who could be that and I wouldn’t replace all of them by any means but I will be nervous about all of them no matter how they end the season.  

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Obviously, we need to see how the season and winter play out.

1. Wells

2. Kremer

3. Rodriguez 

4. Bradish

5. Voth

6. Watkins

7. Hall

8. Baumann

9. Zimmerman 

This is without Lyles and without the #1 pitcher most people want.

The performance of this pitching staff is making the additional of two veteran pitchers seem unnecessary.   It’s also starting to make Lyles possible rotation spot in jeopardy.  The next question is, how bad do you think that Elias feels he needs to go out and get starters for next year.  

And you have Means coming back at some point AND Povich possibly ready at some point.

 

The O's have some starting depth, but is there dependable starting depth?  Of course any pitcher can get hurt at any time.  The only starters I feel confident about are Well, Kremer, and to a lesser extent Bradish.  Bradish looked like someone who didn't belong in the majors a couple of months ago.  I can't see depending on Voth, because there are reasons he was waiver wire material.  I would like the O's to go into spring training with 8 good starter candidates.  I don't consider Hall, Baumann and Zimmerman candidates, they are more like question marks.  The O's should pick up Lyles option and sign a good number 2 (Bassitt is my preference).  If everything goes right, the O's could easily trade Lyles or one of the young starters like Voth.  For instance, Hall and GrayRod pitch like aces in spring training.  There is always a market for young pitchers on cheap salaries with control or a veteran innings eater on a 1 year contract.