2023 Rotation

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

In reality, start with something like Cowser+Hall, and look at add ons from there.  Maybe Mayo+Kjerstad would be an option, but I wouldn't say more than that.

Nah, I think MaverickSouth is more realistic than this.

[Mavericksouth]

6 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

Let's be realistic.  Here's what the Dodgers got for 2 years of Turner and one year of Scherzer.

C Keibert Ruiz (Dodgers' No. 1 prospect per MLB Pipeline); RHP Josiah Gray (No. 2); RHP Gerardo Carrillo (No. 17); OF Donovan Casey (unranked)

No way you'd get more than top 2 prospects, even for Alcantra.  Talking about a throw in of Mullins and Mayo seems way over the top

Also, I understand the control and financial cost is different, but you also have to understand that the quality and pedigree of players is also different.

Okay. Take off Mullins. I won't ask about Adley,  Gunnar, or Grayson. Give Cowser,  Westburg,  Mayo, and Ortiz for the NL Cy Young  Winner. would that be a deal?

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Mavericksouth said:

Okay. Take off Mullins. I won't ask about Adley,  Gunnar, or Grayson. Give Cowser,  Westburg,  Mayo, and Ortiz for the NL Cy Young  Winner. would that be a deal?

I would do it.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I would do it.

I would too.

[Mavericksouth]

20 minutes ago, Pickles said:

He's giving the Marlins' perspective, and I got to say, it's pretty ground in reality imo.

Thanks. Most of the board is pretty cool. A few are getting a little bit spicy, but I get it. I'm telling a different perspective that doesn't necessarily go in lock step with the Orioles' fans' vision. That said, I think it is important to get contrasting points of view which is why I am here. I know in Marlins land we can propose this trade and that trade but that is all preaching to the choir. I want to see what truly is realistic from the opposite side. 

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Mavericksouth said:

Thanks. Most of the board is pretty cool. A few are getting a little bit spicy, but I get it. I'm telling a different perspective that doesn't necessarily go in lock step with the Orioles' fans' vision. That said, I think it is important to get contrasting points of view which is why I am here. I know in Marlins land we can propose this trade and that trade but that is all preaching to the choir. I want to see what truly is realistic from the opposite side. 

I think where these discussions get strained is people fail to take into account motivation.  The Marlins have no motivation to trade Alcantara.  He's young, cheap, team-controlled, and wildly effective.  They would only trade him if they got "more" than he was worth.

People will point to other trades and try to make comparisons, but fail to take into account motivation.  If a team is motivated to trade a guy, usually because of contractual issues, then that's a different thing altogether.

[RZNJ]

30 minutes ago, Pickles said:

He's giving the Marlins' perspective, and I got to say, it's pretty ground in reality imo.

I said it was a fair offer multiple times.

[Mavericksouth]

33 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

In reality, start with something like Cowser+Hall, and look at add ons from there.  Maybe Mayo+Kjerstad would be an option, but I wouldn't say more than that.

No on Hall. The marlins don't need any arms only bats. Cowser yes, Mayo yes, not that high on Kjerstad. He's  a no. Westburg yes. I'm intrigued by Dylan Beavers too..

[Mavericksouth]

31 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I think where these discussions get strained is people fail to take into account motivation.  The Marlins have no motivation to trade Alcantara.  He's young, cheap, team-controlled, and wildly effective.  They would only trade him if they got "more" than he was worth.

People will point to other trades and try to make comparisons, but fail to take into account motivation.  If a team is motivated to trade a guy, usually because of contractual issues, then that's a different thing altogether.

Exactly. Great post. That's where the term "untradeable" comes from. Everyone has a price. However, the marlins have no desire at all to move Sandy unless a team is willing to pay full market value for him. Most teams, outside of the Yankees (who are always in win now mode it seems), are unwilling to do it, so GMs don't waste their time in fruitless discussions. 

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, MarCakes21 said:

When do we have to decide on Lyles?  It would be nice to see if we can make some inroads on some FA SP (through Agents?  Is that legal?) before we have to decide on his option.

Usually options have to be exercised within five days after the end of the season.

[ShoelesJoe]

3 hours ago, Mavericksouth said:

What would that prospect package for Alcantara look like? *Marlins fan here*

I'll give you two possible packages:

1) Westburg, Stowers, Holliday

or

2) Norby, Cowser, Mayo

One package includes our 2021 first round pick, the other has the top pick in the entire 2022 draft. Both packages include an infielder and an outfielder you can probably plug into the Marlins' lineup on opening day 2023, plus a possible star player a year or two away. If you want quantity over quality then we can sub a couple of current lower prospects (Fabian / Wagner etc.) instead of our first rounders. Either of those packages will hurt us to let go, but you can't get something for nothing. 

Would the Marlins bite on either of those deals?

[Mavericksouth]

7 minutes ago, ShoelesJoe said:

I'll give you two possible packages:

1) Westburg, Stowers, Holliday

or

2) Norby, Cowser, Mayo

One package includes our 2021 first round pick, the other has the top pick in the entire 2022 draft. Both packages include an infielder and an outfielder you can probably plug into the Marlins' lineup on opening day 2023, plus a possible star player a year or two away. If you want quantity over quality then we can sub a couple of current lower prospects (Fabian / Wagner etc.) instead of our first rounders. Either of those packages will hurt us to let go, but you can't get something for nothing. 

Would the Marlins bite on either of those deals?

Almost. Personally, id take #2 because I think Cowser can play CF while I don't believe  Stowers can and that is our biggest difficiency at the moment. That proposal would be close but you would need one more piece in either deal. Cowser added to #1 or Westburg or Holliday added to #2.  Not a bad offer though

[Il BuonO]

34 minutes ago, Mavericksouth said:

Exactly. Great post. That's where the term "untradeable" comes from. Everyone has a price. However, the marlins have no desire at all to move Sandy unless a team is willing to pay full market value for him. Most teams, outside of the Yankees (who are always in win now mode it seems), are unwilling to do it, so GMs don't waste their time in fruitless discussions. 

That’s right and that’s why it won’t happen. Alcantara is great-I’d love to have him, but the price is too high for the Orioles. 

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, Mavericksouth said:

Okay. Take off Mullins. I won't ask about Adley,  Gunnar, or Grayson. Give Cowser,  Westburg,  Mayo, and Ortiz for the NL Cy Young  Winner. would that be a deal?

That's a bit too steep for me I think.  Replace Ortiz with someone else and I'd be more likely to bite.  But I'm very high on Ortiz.

[Sports Guy]

33 minutes ago, ShoelesJoe said:

I'll give you two possible packages:

1) Westburg, Stowers, Holliday

or

2) Norby, Cowser, Mayo

One package includes our 2021 first round pick, the other has the top pick in the entire 2022 draft. Both packages include an infielder and an outfielder you can probably plug into the Marlins' lineup on opening day 2023, plus a possible star player a year or two away. If you want quantity over quality then we can sub a couple of current lower prospects (Fabian / Wagner etc.) instead of our first rounders. Either of those packages will hurt us to let go, but you can't get something for nothing. 

Would the Marlins bite on either of those deals?

Are you trying to say these packages are comparable?