Non-Pitching Spending

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Top end/elite relievers are not fungible.

Two months ago was Hader a top end reliever?

Is he now?

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Two months ago was Hader a top end reliever?

Is he now?

Well, Hader had a 4.26 ERA when he was dealt iirc.  He wasn’t quite as sharp this year as he has been.

That said, he has been awful in SD.  Who knows why.  Obviously he’s not this bad but he’s performing this bad.

 

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, Hader had a 4.26 ERA when he was dealt iirc.  He wasn’t quite as sharp this year as he has been.

That said, he has been awful in SD.  Who knows why.  Obviously he’s not this bad but he’s performing this bad.

 

I said two months.  He had a 3.38 ERA in June after allowing no earned runs before June.

In hindsight he was already having issues of some sort when he was traded.

[eddie83]

At the end of the day they need to make sure they have quality depth. Injuries happen. Need quality defenders in the infield. 

[oriolediehard]

The starting pitching staff next year projection is:

John Means.                              Tyler Wells.                                Grayson Rodriguez.                      DL Hall.                                        Dean Kremer.                              Bradish                                      Voth, Watkins. Lyles if resigned???                        Possible surprise Mike Bauman. 

Seems like a pretty good staff without spending for FA.

What do you all think?

Sorry if I misspelled any names.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RZNJ]

Some you guys talking a out Trea Turner and Correa.  Are you guys serious?   Elias has Mateo and Urias coming back if he wants.  He has Gunnar, Westburg, and Ortiz all ready.  He is not going to spend big on an infielder.  In fact, there is a good chance he doesn't spend BIG on anyone. Listen to his words. A large part of the payroll increase will come internally through arbitration.  

A bunch of guys are just setting yourselves for disappointment.   Maybe the O's sign a starter.  Probably not a #1.  Maybe but I wouldn't count on it.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Some you guys talking a out Trea Turner and Correa.  Are you guys serious?   Elias has Mateo and Urias coming back if he wants.  He has Gunnar, Westburg, and Ortiz all ready.  He is not going to spend big on an infielder.  In fact, there is a good chance he doesn't spend BIG on anyone. Listen to his words. A large part of the payroll increase will come internally through arbitration.  

A bunch of guys are just setting yourselves for disappointment.   Maybe the O's sign a starter.  Probably not a #1.  Maybe but I wouldn't count on it.

I understood wanting to go after a SS after last year.

Mateo had been poor.  Henderson was viewed more as a third baseman.  Westburg wasn’t likely to stick.  Ortiz was hurt and wasn’t doing great.

Things have changed.  No way a SS should be on the list.

[hydropups]

 

4 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Some you guys talking a out Trea Turner and Correa.  Are you guys serious?   Elias has Mateo and Urias coming back if he wants.  He has Gunnar, Westburg, and Ortiz all ready.  He is not going to spend big on an infielder.  In fact, there is a good chance he doesn't spend BIG on anyone. Listen to his words. A large part of the payroll increase will come internally through arbitration.  

A bunch of guys are just setting yourselves for disappointment.   Maybe the O's sign a starter.  Probably not a #1.  Maybe but I wouldn't count on it.

Cmon @RZNJ @ me instead of giving me the anonymous “some you guys” treatment!

Not sold long term on Mateo, although he has shown an uptick.

Gunnar at 3b has the upside of when we put Machado there a decade ago, but yeah, he’d look great at short, too.

With an external signing, Westburg/Ortiz I see as prospects that can be used to trade for someone to top the rotation since there aren’t any SP that look great on the FA market.

There’s logic to spending on a SS as long as that third point is part of the plan. I just don’t see the rotation getting an impact player without a trade and those would be two good chips.

at the end of the day, I do agree with you - I don’t think we spend big on any FAs. 

[jamalshw]

To me, the only possible offensive/position player need is someone right-handed to bat somewhere in the middle of the order (unless a key guy is traded this off-season). I'd love to plug Trea Turner's bat in the in 2-3 hole. We have Mullins and Henderson looking like options in the top few spots in the order from the left side. If Santander isn't dealt, you also have him and Adley as switch hitters (hopefully Adley improves against LHP). If so, you can go with Mullins, Adley, Santander, Henderson in the top 4 and be fine. Even better if Mountcastle ends the year hot and can figure in that mix as well. 

In the end, I probably don't add a non-pitcher this off-season unless I trade a Mountcastle or Santander or someone for pitching. 

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Some you guys talking a out Trea Turner and Correa.  Are you guys serious?   Elias has Mateo and Urias coming back if he wants.  He has Gunnar, Westburg, and Ortiz all ready.  He is not going to spend big on an infielder.  In fact, there is a good chance he doesn't spend BIG on anyone. Listen to his words. A large part of the payroll increase will come internally through arbitration.  

A bunch of guys are just setting yourselves for disappointment.   Maybe the O's sign a starter.  Probably not a #1.  Maybe but I wouldn't count on it.

The O’s are in an interesting situation.  They have no huge holes anywhere, yet they don’t have many spots where they are way above average, either.   They have lots of young guys who are having decent to solid years who could improve or stagnate.  They have interesting options in the minors in a number of spots.  Most of their players are very cost-effective.   So, where do you spend serious money for a less cost-efficient upgrade?   Elias and his crew have some pretty complex evaluating to do this winter.

[Sports Guy]

You also have Holliday, who they obviously view and believe will be the SS of the future and that future should only be 2 or so years away.

A SS makes no sense to sign this offseason.

 

[btdart20]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The O’s are in an interesting situation.  They have no huge holes anywhere, yet they don’t have many spots where they are way above average, either.   They have lots of young guys who are having decent to solid years who could improve or stagnate.  They have interesting options in the minors in a number of spots.  Most of their players are very cost-effective.   So, where do you spend serious money for a less cost-efficient upgrade?   Elias and his crew have some pretty complex evaluating to do this winter.

Agreed.  I spend on a short-term TOR SP.  I’m fine going up to $30m/yr on a 2 year deal for an ace.  Beyond a couple of guys that’s the only position I don’t see a breakout from above average to stud.

I started responding to this thread earlier but there so many different directions Elias could reasonably go.  Including doing nothing.  Sig’s abacus will be worn out this winter.  

Every position will be reviewed, projected, discussed.  With the flexibility some guys have there will be multiple scenarios just for them.  
 

@hydropups- For a mid-market team, why sign a big contract for a position of org strength?  That seems like the type of thinking that limits perennial contention and dynasty building.  Limited monetary resources would be better served elsewhere.  Honestly, other than signing a top tier C, I can’t think of a less desirable position to target in FA.

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

You also have Holliday, who they obviously view and believe will be the SS of the future and that future should only be 2 or so years away.

A SS makes no sense to sign this offseason.

 

I want to alert the staff of OH that Sports Guy's account has been hacked.  The real Sports Guy would never advocate for the O's not to sign a top FA SS.

[connja]

I suspect we will start trading guys this winter who are nearing the majors without a spot, which could un-clog some of the positions.  

I think Westburg is a prime trade candidate.   Cowser may be as well, unless we trade Hays or Santander.  Likely for pitching, but I could see us trading Hays and Santander then looking to find a MOO bat as a corner OF or DH.

[RZNJ]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

The O’s are in an interesting situation.  They have no huge holes anywhere, yet they don’t have many spots where they are way above average, either.   They have lots of young guys who are having decent to solid years who could improve or stagnate.  They have interesting options in the minors in a number of spots.  Most of their players are very cost-effective.   So, where do you spend serious money for a less cost-efficient upgrade?   Elias and his crew have some pretty complex evaluating to do this winter.

A starting pitcher is the most likely spot to upgrade.  As well as guys have pitched and even with Means coming back next year, a TOR starter who can also eat innings still makes the most sense.   I just don't believe they will spend 30M-35M to get that guy.    Elias said they would be aggressive in FA so I do expect them to do something and a veteran starter is the most likely spot.