Cubs trade DeRosa to Indians; Does this mean Pie for Olson back on??

[Fairfax Bird]

Benson was a good move when it was made. Its easy to look back already knowing the results & criticizing. No one could have predicted the inujury & lost season when the move was made. John Maine turned out to be a nice NL starter. Many here acted like the Orioles traded away the second coming of Maddux. Which Maine certainly is not!

Of course it looked like a good move when it was made. No one is calling Maine the second coming of Maddux. Just look at their numbers and tell me who won the trade:

Benson:

2006 - 11-12 4.82 ERA

2007 - Surgery

Maine:

2006 - 6-5 3.60

2007 - 15-10 3.91

2008 - 10-8 4.18

The Mets killed us on that deal.

[LADANK]

Have there been any interest in our young pitchers in the minor league? The only thing we have heard was San Diego covets Garrett Olson. Outside of that nothing.

[Roll Tide]

Of course it looked like a good move when it was made. No one is calling Maine the second coming of Maddux. Just look at their numbers and tell me who won the trade:

Benson:

2006 - 11-12 4.82 ERA

2007 - Surgery

Maine:

2006 - 6-5 3.60

2007 - 15-10 3.91

2008 - 10-8 4.18

The Mets killed us on that deal.

Again ....No one could have predicted the injury to Benson. Arm injuries happen to pitchers.

[Fairfax Bird]

Again ....No one could have predicted the injury to Benson. Arm injuries happen to pitchers.

But in the one year they both pitched Maine clearly was a better pitcher. So even with no arm injury trade still goes to the Mets.

Now, prospects turn out differently, but this is the chance you take when you trade your young pitching talent for ML average players. Clearly, all of our pitching prospects save the big 3 will only bring back ML average players unless they are packaged. In rebuilding mode these aren't trades we should make.

[Roll Tide]

But in the one year they both pitched Maine clearly was a better pitcher. So even with no arm injury trade still goes to the Mets.

Now, prospects turn out differently, but this is the chance you take when you trade your young pitching talent for ML average players. Clearly, all of our pitching prospects save the big 3 will only bring back ML average players unless they are packaged. In rebuilding mode these aren't trades we should make.

Really Fairfax ...We're mostly on the same side here. I personally think we should trade every major league guy we have thats not 28 or under. The Orioles didn't accomplish what they hinted they were going to do. Their not going to pay top dollar on anyone in FA anymore. With this approach they need to trade Guthrie,Roberts,Scott,Sherrill,Freel, Huff & move to a total youth movement. The standing on the fence thing doesn't work & the fans are buying it even less every season.

[Fairfax Bird]

Really Fairfax ...We're mostly on the same side here. I personally think we should trade every major league guy we have thats not 28 or under. The Orioles didn't accomplish what they hinted they were going to do. Their not going to pay top dollar on anyone in FA anymore. With this approach they need to trade Guthrie,Roberts,Scott,Sherrill,Freel, Huff & move to a total youth movement. The standing on the fence thing doesn't work & the fans are buying it even less every season.

I am ready to deal Roberts, Huff, Scott, and Sherrill, but I would like to hang onto Guthrie and think Freel could have more value at the deadline. I do agree thought it is time to bottom this thing out and re-build completely.

[Roll Tide]

I am ready to deal Roberts, Huff, Scott, and Sherrill, but I would like to hang onto Guthrie and think Freel could have more value at the deadline. I do agree thought it is time to bottom this thing out and re-build completely.

I'd bet the offers for Guthrie would be Bedard like if we made it known we were shopping him. He's a much better deal than the contracts that have been handed out & he's far better than anything thats left. A good solution for a team like Milwaukee that lost CC & most likely Sheets.

[bigbird]

Benson. How did that work out?

Every team makes bad moves. Should Seattle never make another trade after the Bedard deal? The only way a bad move happens is if you actually try to improve. Maine is what Olsen currently is and would probably a league avrage pitcher at most in the AL. Who cares about Julio????

[bigbird]

Of course it looked like a good move when it was made. No one is calling Maine the second coming of Maddux. Just look at their numbers and tell me who won the trade:

Benson:

2006 - 11-12 4.82 ERA

2007 - Surgery

Maine:

2006 - 6-5 3.60

2007 - 15-10 3.91

2008 - 10-8 4.18

The Mets killed us on that deal.

Factor Maine in the AL East and what would his stats be???

[LeeMay]

I'd bet the offers for Guthrie would be Bedard like if we made it known we were shopping him. He's a much better deal than the contracts that have been handed out & he's far better than anything thats left. A good solution for a team like Milwaukee that lost CC & most likely Sheets.

Guthrie is under our control for a few years and he's cheap. He's not going anywhere.

[bigbird]

first, Happy New Year to all. Hopefully 2009 will make us all forget about 2008 in many ways. So we've signed Hendrickson. No problem as long as he's in the pen or a #4-5 starter at best.

My question as we move forward is focused on 2010. Many here say that is when the plan is set to kick in. Looking forward we'll be without a 1B, 2B, 3B, and DH as well as 4 starting pitchers in 2010. How do these positions get filled with major league talented players??

[clapdiddy]

first, Happy New Year to all. Hopefully 2009 will make us all forget about 2008 in many ways. So we've signed Hendrickson. No problem as long as he's in the pen or a #4-5 starter at best.

My question as we move forward is focused on 2010. Many here say that is when the plan is set to kick in. Looking forward we'll be without a 1B, 2B, 3B, and DH as well as 4 starting pitchers in 2010. How do these positions get filled with major league talented players??

Don't worry, BB, we've got a whole year to figure that out!

Oh...Happy New Year to you, too!

[Roll Tide]

Guthrie is under our control for a few years and he's cheap. He's not going anywhere.

Since the Orioles front office obviously doesnt care about the short term ...its in their best interest to sell high & care about how to get better for 2012 & beyond.

They need to remove the players that will not be here or on the decline when we are respectable again.

[Fairfax Bird]

Factor Maine in the AL East and what would his stats be???

Much better than 4.82.

[allstar1579]

Much better than 4.82.

I highly doubt that. His stats would have been a full run higher, at least. His home park would have been one of the top 5 offensive parks in all of baseball, that is 15 or so starts where a mild fly ball is a HR.

We can hate on this trade in hindsight, but lets go back to 2004. Maine had great stats in the low minors, got to AAA and stumbled a bit, injuries or what have you. Then he goes back to AAA in 2005 and gets knocked around some more. When he comes up for his 10 game cup of coffee he puts up a 6.30 ERA and his BB/K ratio goes from lifetime 3:1 to about 1:1 in the majors. That should tell you that he wasn't comfortable letting players put the ball in play in CY and was trying to work outside the zone too much (doesn't work for rookies who veterans will make throw the ball into the zone).

We could very well have the same situation with Olson, but then the argument is made, if he is never going to be much here, is it really that bad to deal him somewhere else and become decent? Would you rather have a guy stuck in AAA on your team, or a #3 starter on another? Answer: depends on the talent you get back for him