Dook

[Pedro Cerrano]

This team makes me sick. Sheldon CLOBBERS a guy underneath the basket and nary a whistle. Sure, they may have won anyway but even VITALE was saying it was a foul. But it's worth mentioning that Sheldon got two free throws out of that instead of two that BC should have had and Dook won by two anyway. Absolutely disgusting...... [/rant]

[BaltimoreTerp]

Why bother bringing it up?

Everyone knows Duke needs the help of the refs to win so many of their games.

I was shocked myself on the play earlier when Vitele was screaming because he thought the BC should have been fouled when it turned out he wasn't touched.

[Sports Guy]

Why bother bringing it up?

Everyone knows Duke needs the help of the refs to win so many of their games.

I was shocked myself on the play earlier when Vitele was screaming because he thought the BC should have been fouled when it turned out he wasn't touched.

What an idiotic statement, although i would not expect anything different from you.

BTW, lots of fouls in that game not called by that Sheldon non call was a terrible call...Ref was not in position to make a call so he did not call anything but horrible non call.

[NewMarketSean]

There is a Duke bias when it comes to referees in the NCAA. Anyone who says there isn't is wrong.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Well, I happen to think NCAA basketball officials are the worst officials in any major sport, so many blown calls night in and night out. I'll never make such a sweeping generalization but it's true that Dook seems to get their fair share of calls, but any prominent program/coach does as well. All I'm saying is that no-call under the basket on BC's last possession goes down as one of the all time worst calls I've ever seen.

[Sports Guy]

Well, I happen to think NCAA basketball officials are the worst officials in any major sport, so many blown calls night in and night out. I'll never make such a sweeping generalization but it's true that Dook seems to get their fair share of calls, but any prominent program/coach does as well. All I'm saying is that no-call under the basket on BC's last possession goes down as one of the all time worst calls I've ever seen.

Most definitely....Horrible non call.

But a horrible non call among many but it is accented because it was near the end of the game. Unlikely BC wins anyway.

[Nuclear Dish]

There is a Duke bias when it comes to referees in the NCAA. Anyone who says there isn't is wrong.

Well, let me offer a reason for this, as well as some support.

First the reason: Mike Kryjhbvajwski is one of the dominant figures in the sport, generally bullying NCAA policy, flaunting his ability to get around the rules, and most of all BULLYING THE REFS. Have you ever watched him during a game? Have you seen how abusive he is toward the refs? How does he get away with that without gettig multiple technicals? How does he not get ejected? The answer is that no ref want to have to explain to the NCAA why he threw out their #1 guy from a nationally televised game. And further to that, they do everything they can to avoid such abuse in the first place by not calling fouls on Dook. Would you like to be given a severe tongue-lashing on national television by a sniveling ratfaced dictator? I wouldn't, and the thought of such a fate might influence my calls.

Now the proof: look back over the past 10 years and notice how many fouls have been called on Dook versus the number called on their opponents. Look at the free throws taken by Dook compared to their opponents. The numbers are astounding.

Now before you go off on that, let me give a proviso. All good teams tend to foul less than their opponents (especially late in games) and tend to take more FT than their opponents (again, especially late in games). But the Dook numbers are well beyond the normal expected range. They take nearly twice as many FT as their opponents!

I'll look for some hard numbers to back this up.

[Nuclear Dish]

Quotes from BC coach Al Skinner last night:

"We got a couple of (whistles)." (said sarcastically)

"All I'm saying is that tonight, with the type of team we have, we only shoot 13 free throws and they shoot 37 is hard to believe. Craig Smith plays 35 minutes and it's difficult to believe that he does not go to the free throw line once. There was as much done to him as their post players received."

"There were some tough calls, and I don't remember us getting the benefit. Even the last play, there's contact and it's OK. We make contact and it's a foul. It's unfortunate."

"You can call whatever you want against us, but it's got to be the same on both ends. When there's contact going to the basket, they call fouls, that's fine. But when my guys go to the basket and there's contact, it should be a foul. It's just that simple."

"When that doesn't occur, then obviously there's a problem there."

And this from an article in College Hoops Gazette:

According to sources other than ESPN, Duke's coach Mike Krzyzewski slammed a chair to the floor that bears his name during the first half of this weekend's game against Virginia. Krzyzewski was apparently upset with the play of freshman point guard Greg Paulus, and he vented his frustration by breaking a nearby chair.

No technical called, BTW. Here's their opinion, later in that article:

My point is that if another coach had walloped a chair this weekend, you'd have heard plenty about it. But ESPN needs Duke, and Coach K especially, to be its squeaky clean focal point. By naming Duke its Official Good Guys, ESPN has a built-in narrative that they can sell over and over to its market. It makes great business sense -- build them up as the Yankees even though they've accomplished nothing close to the Bombers (or UCLA's dynasty for that matter) and play every other team off against them.

The only tricky part is making sure that when a Laettner stomps an opposing player, or K chases after a ref screaming that he took the game from his team, or he destroys a chair while enraged, the network needs to gloss over or ignore it and must pretend it never happened. To do otherwise is to risk Duke being seen as what it really is -- a damned good program led by an occasionally raving maniac.

And I've attached a photo of that last play. You tell me how there's no foul called. It's all face and no ball.

[Sports Guy]

Well, let me offer a reason for this, as well as some support.

First the reason: Mike Kryjhbvajwski is one of the dominant figures in the sport, generally bullying NCAA policy, flaunting his ability to get around the rules, and most of all BULLYING THE REFS. Have you ever watched him during a game? Have you seen how abusive he is toward the refs? How does he get away with that without gettig multiple technicals? How does he not get ejected? The answer is that no ref want to have to explain to the NCAA why he threw out their #1 guy from a nationally televised game. And further to that, they do everything they can to avoid such abuse in the first place by not calling fouls on Dook. Would you like to be given a severe tongue-lashing on national television by a sniveling ratfaced dictator? I wouldn't, and the thought of such a fate might influence my calls.

Now the proof: look back over the past 10 years and notice how many fouls have been called on Dook versus the number called on their opponents. Look at the free throws taken by Dook compared to their opponents. The numbers are astounding.

Now before you go off on that, let me give a proviso. All good teams tend to foul less than their opponents (especially late in games) and tend to take more FT than their opponents (again, especially late in games). But the Dook numbers are well beyond the normal expected range. They take nearly twice as many FT as their opponents!

I'll look for some hard numbers to back this up.

While you are looking that up, look up the difference between UNC as well.

Also, while looking that up, i want you to weed out the foul shots that are taken by Duke in the games they are ahead and opponents are fouling on purpose at the end of games.

[Sports Guy]

As a UNC fan and thus an MJ fan, ND really you should not even talk about this subject.

[Nuclear Dish]

2005-2006 Dook FTA: 582

2005-2006 Opponents FTA: 319 (55%)

2005-2006 ACC games, Dook FTA: 197

2005-2006 ACC games, Opponents FTA: 135 (69%)

2005-2006 Maryland FTA: 495

2005-2006 Opponents FTA: 414 (84%)

2005-2006 ACC games, Maryland FTA: 165

2005-2006 ACC games, Opponents FTA: 126 (79%)

2005-2006 UNC FTA: 411

2005-2006 Opponents FTA: 277 (67%)

2005-2006 ACC games, UNC FTA: 117

2005-2006 ACC games, Opponents FTA: 138 (118%)

2005-2006 BC FTA: 470

2005-2006 Opponents FTA: 344 (73%)

2005-2006 ACC games, BC FTA: 172

2005-2006 ACC games, Opponents FTA: 166 (97%)

2005-2006 NC State FTA: 476

2005-2006 Opponents FTA: 405 (85%)

2005-2006 ACC games, NC State FTA: 193

2005-2006 ACC games, Opponents FTA: 183 (95%)

So to summarize:

Opponents' overall FTA as a percentage of your overall FTA:

Dook 55%

UNC 67%

BC 73%

D 83%

NCSU 85%

Opponents' FTA as a percentage of your FTA, conference games only:

Dook 69%

MD 79%

NCSU 95%

BC 97%

UNC 118%

Now tell me again that something is not awry.

[Nuclear Dish]

Also, while looking that up, i want you to weed out the foul shots that are taken by Duke in the games they are ahead and opponents are fouling on purpose at the end of games.

The difference between how often that happens to Dooka nd to other great programs is negligible. If they win an extra 4 games a year, you're looking at maybe an extra 6-8 shots per game. Even if you remove that, the numbers are striking.

[Nuclear Dish]

As a UNC fan and thus an MJ fan, ND really you should not even talk about this subject.

Really? I don't remember MJ getting any special treatment when he was in college. If we're going to talk about the NBA, we should move this thread to another forum, and then YOU shouldn't even be talking about this subject, since we all know Dookies flat out suck in the pros.

[Sports Guy]

The difference between how often that happens to Dooka nd to other great programs is negligible. If they win an extra 4 games a year, you're looking at maybe an extra 6-8 shots per game. Even if you remove that, the numbers are striking.

Give me a break.

Duke wins way more than anyone...They play smarter defense than anyone(and thus foul less)...They are more aggressive than most teams.

Lots of reasons why they get more foul shots...TO look at numbers like that is a joke and you know it.

How many fouls are committed on Duke when a team turns it over and stops a fast break?

So many variables.

I am sure they do get calls more than any other team. Great players/programs get that stuff called for them. Just the way it is.

[Sports Guy]

Really? I don't remember MJ getting any special treatment when he was in college. If we're going to talk about the NBA, we should move this thread to another forum, and then YOU shouldn't even be talking about this subject, since we all know Dookies flat out suck in the pros.

Nice mature response...Almost relevant here.