I've made my decision

[tntoriole]

16 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

There are more choices than that.  They could acquire someone else to play third.

That changes everything.. 

[tntoriole]

16 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You're right, assuming Urias is the 3B.  Right now the difference in OPS between the 2 is 50 points.  Career wise it's 90 points.  No one can predict the future but I have more confidence in Urias putting up the same or better numbers than I do Mateo.  Moving forward I am hoping for better offensive numbers from every infield spot.  I think Mateo's value is highest right now.  We'll see what Elias thinks.  Henderson is either going to be the 3B or SS. 

I am sure there will be lots of listening and shopping this winter and I trust Elias et al to make the choices. 

[jamalshw]

I love the versatility we have right now. It gives Elias a lot of options in the offseason to help acquire pitching (and ideally another bat). We could move Mateo and stick Henderson at SS. We could keep Mateo and Henderson at SS and 3B and move Westburg, Norby and/or Ortiz in a package. We could use Urias at 2B or 3B or as a utility guy...or move him in a package deal. There are plenty of options which is great. It'll be interesting to see what happens this offseason.  

[Redskins Rick]

I like the combination of Mateo at SS and Henderson at 3rd.

I have to admit, his bat is on the weaker side, but his speed and base running abilities is super.

Mateo's WAR is 3.2

So he is bringing value to the roster

 

[LookinUp]

The O's aggressive promotions has put them in a very weird position. It can be argued that all of Mateo, Urias, Henderson, Vavra, Ortiz and Westburg are ready for essentially 3 positions. Norby is probably ready, but if you said he needs 2 more months in theory, I could agree.

Long story short, this isn't just a discussion about Mateo and Henderson. They are going to have to move some of these guys.

The rookies are cheaper, so I just assume Mateo/Urias are more likely to be gone. 

[Aristotelian]

7 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I like the combination of Mateo at SS and Henderson at 3rd.

I have to admit, his bat is on the weaker side, but his speed and base running abilities is super.

Mateo's WAR is 3.2

So he is bringing value to the roster

 

If we keep Mateo, at least pinch hit for him if we are down or tied late. He has been killing us in those situations lately. 

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

The O's aggressive promotions has put them in a very weird position. It can be argued that all of Mateo, Urias, Henderson, Vavra, Ortiz and Westburg are ready for essentially 3 positions. Norby is probably ready, but if you said he needs 2 more months in theory, I could agree.

Long story short, this isn't just a discussion about Mateo and Henderson. They are going to have to move some of these guys.

The rookies are cheaper, so I just assume Mateo/Urias are more likely to be gone. 

Urias will be cheap also.   He is not arbitration eligible this off season.   And it seems unlikely that Mateo will make more than 3M in his first year of arbitration.

[Sports Guy]

24 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I like the combination of Mateo at SS and Henderson at 3rd.

I have to admit, his bat is on the weaker side, but his speed and base running abilities is super.

Mateo's WAR is 3.2

So he is bringing value to the roster

 

His fWAR (the better WAR) is 2.4. 
 

He’s a valuable guy but the WAR hasn’t really moved over the last 6 weeks(may even be down?). 

His WAR is defensive driven and while that’s ok, he has never been at this level defensively before and we don’t know that he will repeat it. Just like offense, defense will peak.  This could be that peak.

His bat is too much of a liability.

[spiritof66]

33 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I like the combination of Mateo at SS and Henderson at 3rd.

I have to admit, his bat is on the weaker side, but his speed and base running abilities is super.

Mateo's WAR is 3.2

So he is bringing value to the roster

 

Honest question(s), no tricks or hidden agenda:

Can Mateo learn to bunt and to chop at the ball if he's convinced that's in his best interest, and if he does that how much would those skills add to his OPS and to his value, measured by WAR or otherwise, as the Orioles' SS to begin next season and his ability to keep the job until we see Holliday (when the puns will really begin to fly)? 

[Redskins Rick]

29 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If we keep Mateo, at least pinch hit for him if we are down or tied late. He has been killing us in those situations lately. 

He has several game winning hits too. The other night, he was on base, and was knocked in when they scored the only 2 runs of the night.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

Honest question(s), no tricks or hidden agenda:

Can Mateo learn to bunt and to chop at the ball if he's convinced that's in his best interest, and if he does that how much would those skills add to his OPS and to his value, measured by WAR or otherwise, as the Orioles' SS to begin next season and his ability to keep the job until we see Holliday (when the puns will really begin to fly)? 

There’s no reason for Mateo to try and hit the ball on the ground.  Yeah, he’s fast but he’ll still be a .200 hitter.  He doesn’t get many infield hits on grounders as it is.  ML infielders will throw him out 90% of the time.

He’s got enough power to hit 20 homers.  He simply needs to stay back, not open up to quickly, and use the whole field.  That’s what he did in July.  He keeps falling into the same bad habits.  I’d love to know what percentage of his batted balls were hit to the RF in September.

[Redskins Rick]

7 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Honest question(s), no tricks or hidden agenda:

Can Mateo learn to bunt and to chop at the ball if he's convinced that's in his best interest, and if he does that how much would those skills add to his OPS and to his value, measured by WAR or otherwise, as the Orioles' SS to begin next season and his ability to keep the job until we see Holliday (when the puns will really begin to fly)? 

I dont disagree. Ideally, there are better all around players that push Mateo to the bench in a Ult backup role, if he cant. 

Until that happens, then play him.

[LookinUp]

26 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Urias will be cheap also.   He is not arbitration eligible this off season.   And it seems unlikely that Mateo will make more than 3M in his first year of arbitration.

In a vacuum, you're correct, but you're not stashing several ML ready guys in AAA all season. Maybe for a month or two, but not for 5-6. 

That means they'll either be up on our team or on another team, and Mateo/Urias having some service time versus zero service time means that even if they're not THAT expensive, they're still more expensive than the other guys, and that delta will grow in the next couple of years.

So, yeah, they're more expensive, and some will have to be moved, so I'm guessing the more expensive guys are the ones to go.

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

In a vacuum, you're correct, but you're not stashing several ML ready guys in AAA all season. Maybe for a month or two, but not for 5-6. 

That means they'll either be up on our team or on another team, and Mateo/Urias having some service time versus zero service time means that even if they're not THAT expensive, they're still more expensive than the other guys, and that delta will grow in the next couple of years.

So, yeah, they're more expensive, and some will have to be moved, so I'm guessing the more expensive guys are the ones to go.

I am not commenting of who should be moved.  (Not just yet.)   Just pointing out that what they are making should not be the reason they are moved.   None of these guys are so expensive that the O's can't afford them.

Its more about how to put a championship team together.

[Three Run Homer]

The thing that I'm most certain about is the Urias should not be in the starting lineup to start next season, at 3B or anywhere else.  Either he or Mateo would make a good utility player, but if the O's are serious about contending next year, they need to commit to their young infielders if they believe in them, or trade them for an upgrade otherwise.    In my opinion, Westburg has nothing left to prove and needs to be starting somewhere in the infield next season.  I think Ortiz has also proven enough to start somewhere on opening day. 

The O's know more than I do about what defensive positioning makes most sense, but I think we should see some combination of Westburg, Ortiz and Henderson in the infield on opening day, with Norby waiting in the wings.