Will the hitting coaches change in 2023?

[Aristotelian]

I really wouldn't care either way. I have no reason to suspect the hitting coaches are at fault for any underperformance. I'd privately ask Adley what he thinks and take that into strong consideration. Santander showed some progress this year.

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

So, this is a message board set up to discuss all things related to the MLB Orioles club. Why would the hitting coaches, or any other inane baseball topic, be less than worthy of discussion.

I respect your knowledge and insight and frequently read your posts with great interest. However, you are being rather dismissive with this last post. Is that really your intent? 

I thought you said you read his posts.

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

So, this is a message board set up to discuss all things related to the MLB Orioles club. Why would the hitting coaches, or any other inane baseball topic, be less than worthy of discussion.

I respect your knowledge and insight and frequently read your posts with great interest. However, you are being rather dismissive with this last post. Is that really your intent? 

Well going back to my original post, you have a poster here who spent a year on the jock strap of Holt and after a year of awful performance and no advancement by the pitchers, he never questioned him.

Now, after a year where success was better than last year and we saw some guys take steps forward, he is obviously questioning whether or not these guys are right for the job.  On top of that, part of his reasoning for defending Holt is because he had success in the minors and his success wasn’t nearly as good as the success Fuller had, yet he calls Filler into question.

So yea, with all of that as the backdrop, I’m questioning why this question is even on the board, whether or not it’s a board designed for Os talk. 

I mean, you can start a thread about whatever you want but if I started a thread with the premise that Adley should be sent down to learn to hit lefties and learn how to hit the ball harder, it wouldn’t be thread worthy of being discussed on this site.  But it is still my right to start to it because hey, it’s a message board.  But I would expect people to jump on me for starting a thread that is that dumb.

[wildcard]

Grayson, Hall, Kremer, Bautista, Tate, Akin, Baumann, and Vespi were all in the minors in 2019 when Holt  managed the O's minor league pitching.  There was some success there.

No minor leagues in 2020.

Holt was promoted to Major and Minor league Director of Pitching at the end of 2019.    But in 2021 for an undisclosed reason he left the team while the major league pitching staff spiraled down.

However his 2022 pitching staff surprised and improved greatly.  Many pitchers giving credit to the how the analytics were communicated by the development staff  under Holt's leadership who also taught new pitches and helped to refine  the one they already had. 

Yes, Holt has overseen the great improvement in the O's pitching and deserve credit for that.

Meanwhile the offense produced over 100 runs less than the division winner.  That is what is being discussed in this thread.   How does the offense improve?

Edited October 9, 2022 by wildcard

[Frobby]

9 hours ago, wildcard said:

Point one:  Holt has only been the major league pitching coach the last two years.  The first two years that he was with in the O's organization he coached the minors where Holt had a lot of success.

Point two:  I asked a question about the hitting coaches because the team's hitting is in the bottom half of the league while the team in 2023 wants to win the division or at least be a playoff team.   I did not express an opinion.  I asked a question.

I don’t think the new coaches are in any danger, for these reasons:

1.  The team scored 15 more runs than last year.  Only three AL teams scored more runs in 2022 than in 2021.

2.  The average AL team scored 61 fewer runs in 2022 than in 2021.   So, relative to the league scoring environment, the O’s improved by 61 + 15 = 76 runs from last year.  

3.   The O’s did this despite the change in dimensions at OPACY, which I estimate (based on home/road splits for both the offense and the pitching) cost them at least 50 runs, and probably more.   So, the “real” improvement was in the neighborhood of 125 runs or more.  

4.   You mentioned that Holt and Holmes are only in their second year.   Well, the hitting coaches are only in their first year.  The pitching was just awful last year (worse than in 2020), yet the O’s were patient with the new coaches.  There’s no reason for the O’s not to be equally patient with the hitting coaches, especially since they actually got significant improvement in Year One, unlike the pitching coaches.  

5.  Finally, despite the improvement, you mention that the hitting was in the bottom half of the league.  The pitching is also still in the bottom half of the league, despite its improvement.   So, there’s no good reason to single out the hitting coaches as someone to consider replacing.  
 

[wildcard]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think the new coaches are in any danger, for these reasons:

1.  The team scored 15 more runs than last year.  Only three AL teams scored more runs in 2022 than in 2021.

2.  The average AL team scored 61 fewer runs in 2022 than in 2021.   So, relative to the league scoring environment, the O’s improved by 61 + 15 = 76 runs from last year.  

3.   The O’s did this despite the change in dimensions at OPACY, which I estimate (based on home/road splits for both the offense and the pitching) cost them at least 50 runs, and probably more.   So, the “real” improvement was in the neighborhood of 125 runs or more.  

4.   You mentioned that Holt and Holmes are only in their second year.   Well, the hitting coaches are only in their first year.  The pitching was just awful last year (worse than in 2020), yet the O’s were patient with the new coaches.  There’s no reason for the O’s not to be equally patient with the hitting coaches, especially since they actually got significant improvement in Year One, unlike the pitching coaches.  

5.  Finally, despite the improvement, you mention that the hitting was in the bottom half of the league.  The pitching is also still in the bottom half of the league, despite its improvement.   So, there’s no good reason to single out the hitting coaches as someone to consider replacing.  
 

Good post.   Interesting that both he offense and pitching were in the bottom half  but the record was 83-79.

[Can_of_corn]

20 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Good post.   Interesting that both he offense and pitching were in the bottom half  but the record was 83-79.

Pythagorean was reversed.

[Frobby]

26 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Good post.   Interesting that both he offense and pitching were in the bottom half  but the record was 83-79.

They were ourscored 674-688.   I credit the bullpen for their .500+ record.  Even though the bullpen slipped to 7th in ERA due to a lousy September, they still had a 43-29 record and saved 46 games in 59 opportunities (78%).   Average AL save rate was 64%, so that’s about 8 fewer blown saves than the average team.   The pen had a +5.60 win probability added.  They were very good at holding the line when the O’s were ahead or tied.  

[Frobby]

On 10/9/2022 at 7:05 AM, wildcard said:

The pitching  with the coaches the O's have seems to be in good hands but  are the hitting coaches and their philosophy going to need to change in 2023?  Or is it just getting better hitters?

Just curious - what do you think now?

I think our hitting coaches did a very good job last year, and now their program is really taking hold.