"Moves that completely befuddle us" 2022-23 offseason edition

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Absolutely not.  It would be indecorous.

I think contract extensions are in bounds.  

[SteveA]

22 hours ago, wildcard said:

Only CBS sports called Bemboom contract as split contract.   That means to me it a minor league contract.

All other reports just call it a one year contract.  Which does not tell whether it is a major or minor league contract.  

I need verification from some other source to know what kind on contract Bemboom signed.  This also effects if he is still on the 40 man roster.

Time will tell.

He is in the 40 man roster.  Time has told.

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/latest-look-at-40-man-roster-before-it-changes-again

[wildcard]

8 hours ago, SteveA said:

He is in the 40 man roster.  Time has told.

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/latest-look-at-40-man-roster-before-it-changes-again

Well, you may be right but it makes no sense to me.   What is a split major league contract when the player has no options left.   If he is DFA'd the contract is not binding.   The team is not required to offer him to go to AAA.  And the player can refuse the assignment when outrighted the 2nd time (which would be true for Bemboom).  

The whole split contract for a major league contract makes no sense to me since he has no options left.

Edited October 21, 2022 by wildcard

[SteveA]

Just now, wildcard said:

Well, you may be right but it makes no sense to me.   What is a split contract major league contract when the player has no options left.   If he is DFA'd the contract is not binding.   The team is not required to offer him to go to AAA.  And the player can refuse the assignment when outrighted the 2nd time (which would be true for Bemboom).  

The whole split contract for a major league contract makes no sense to me.

The player CAN refuse.   But maybe he has agreed not to refuse, given that he is on the split contract and would be making more than the run of the mill minor leaguer?

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Well, you may be right but it makes no sense to me.   What is a split major league contract when the player has no options left.   If he is DFA'd the contract is not binding.   The team is not required to offer him to go to AAA.  And the player can refuse the assignment when outrighted the 2nd time (which would be true for Bemboom).  

The whole split contract for a major league contract makes no sense to me since he has no options left.

Who says the contract isn’t binding if he gets DFA?  Are you speaking from something you know or have read, or are you guessing?

I don’t profess to know what these contracts actually say.   As a lawyer, I can tell you that it certainly would be possible to write one that remains binding if the player is DFA.  Obviously, they can’t write one that would prevent another team from claiming the player when he is DFA.

[wildcard]

11 minutes ago, SteveA said:

The player CAN refuse.   But maybe he has agreed not to refuse, given that he is on the split contract and would be making more than the run of the mill minor leaguer?

I guess.  Considering the fact that it is very unlikely that Bemboom stays in the majors all off season and all season, I guess we will see.

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Who says the contract isn’t binding if he gets DFA?  Are you speaking from something you know or have read, or are you guessing?

I don’t profess to know what these contracts actually say.   As a lawyer, I can tell you that it certainly would be possible to write one that remains binding if the player is DFA.  Obviously, they can’t write one that would prevent another team from claiming the player when he is DFA.

Yes I have read the rules many times.  Not saying I am an expect.  I am sure there are things I don't know.

A major league team is only allowed to have 40 major league contracts at one time plus the players that are on the 60 day IL and the restricted list.  So when a played is DFA'd  that major league contract dissolves.   There are rules about how it can or can't transfer in a minor league contract.  But the major league contract ends.

There are some rules about if a player has 3 or 5 years of service on whether his salary carries over to the minors.   But Bemboom does not have 3 years of service.  And these rules are enforced by the CBA.

So if a major league contract has been terminated then what good are any terms made under that agreement?   

[CharmCityHokie]

39 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Well, you may be right but it makes no sense to me.   What is a split major league contract when the player has no options left.   If he is DFA'd the contract is not binding.   The team is not required to offer him to go to AAA.  And the player can refuse the assignment when outrighted the 2nd time (which would be true for Bemboom).  

The whole split contract for a major league contract makes no sense to me since he has no options left.

My thought was that this provides them the opportunity to start him in the minors for the season* and bring him up if they need him. I'm not saying I agree with it or think it was a worthwhile play, but that was just my first thought. What they seem in Bemboom, Odor, Aguilar, cave etc. is beyond my capacity of understanding.

*Edit: And prevent him from reaching minor league free agency this winter

Edited October 21, 2022 by CharmCityHokie

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, CharmCityHokie said:

My thought was that this provides them the opportunity to start him in the minors for the season* and bring him up if they need him. I'm not saying I agree with it or think it was a worthwhile play, but that was just my first thought. What they seem in Bemboom, Odor, Aguilar, cave etc. is beyond my capacity of understanding.

*Edit: And prevent him from reaching minor league free agency this winter

If he signed a major league contract he has to be DFA'd to begin in the minors.

If he signed a minor league contract then what you thought makes sense.

[CharmCityHokie]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

If he signed a major league contract he has to be DFA'd to begin in the minors.

If he signed a minor league contract then what you thought makes sense.

Right, you are correct, I think I wasn't very clear and it's probably my misunderstanding. I wasn't sure if signing a split contract allowed them to write in language that if he doesn't make the team out of ST that he goes to AAA until he's needed.

But then I read this and now I'm just overly confused and can't believe I'm spending this much time thinking about Anthony Bemboom and his contract. 

Quote

A player on a split or Minor League contract will earn the prorated portion of his Major League salary for time spent on the Major League roster. Clubs can also sign players to non-guaranteed contracts but still place them on the 40-man roster. Those contracts become guaranteed upon the player making the Major League roster out of Spring Training, but he may also be cut prior to Opening Day. Players cut on or before the 16th day of Spring Training are owed 30 days' termination pay (based on the prorated version of his agreed-upon salary). A player cut between the 16th day and the end of Spring Training is owed 45 days' termination pay (based on the prorated version of his agreed-upon salary).

So maybe they just want to guarantee he's in Spring Training? I don't know, I give up on wondering.

Edited October 21, 2022 by CharmCityHokie

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, CharmCityHokie said:

Right, you are correct, I think I wasn't very clear and it's probably my misunderstanding. I wasn't sure if signing a split contract allowed them to write in language that if he doesn't make the team out of ST that he goes to AAA until he's needed.

But then I read this and now I'm just overly confused and can't believe I'm spending this much time thinking about Anthony Bemboom and his contract. 

So maybe they just want to guarantee he's in Spring Training? I don't know, I give up on wondering.

Yes,  I know about this.   The thing that is strange to me is that they would keep Bemboom on the 40 man roster all off season.   Seems like there are better ways to use that 40 man roster spot.

The other thing about termination pay is that the player has to stay on the 40 man roster until ST.  Then he has to perform poorly to be terminated.  If he performs well in ST he can't be terminated.   The team is on the hook for his whole salary if he is DFA'd.

[eddie83]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

Yes,  I know about this.   The thing that is strange to me is that they would keep Bemboom on the 40 man roster all off season.   Seems like there are better ways to use that 40 man roster spot.

The other thing about termination pay is that the player has to stay on the 40 man roster until ST.  Then he has to perform poorly to be terminated.  If he performs well in ST he can't be terminated.   The team is on the hook for his whole salary if he is DFA'd.

This not complicated. 
 

Bemboom has been basically a AAAA player in recent years. He wants some job security. The Orioles are offering him more money at AAA than he is entitled to by rule. Obviously we have no details on the contract.

If the Orioles at any time drop him off the 40 then Benboom has to take the risk of finding another team or staying here. The Orioles are basically giving him a financial incentive to stay at AAA. The Orioles have the depth the want at AAA and he gets more financial security. 
 

 

He may be off the 40 by next week and it would not surprise me. 

[OriolesMagic83]

9 hours ago, wildcard said:

Yes,  I know about this.   The thing that is strange to me is that they would keep Bemboom on the 40 man roster all off season.   Seems like there are better ways to use that 40 man roster spot.

The other thing about termination pay is that the player has to stay on the 40 man roster until ST.  Then he has to perform poorly to be terminated.  If he performs well in ST he can't be terminated.   The team is on the hook for his whole salary if he is DFA'd.

Who determines what playing well is?  Is hitting .200 w/ a few HR playing well?

I assume a player has to be playing very poorly like sub .100 for the union not to try and collect the player's pay.

[Frobby]

25 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Who determines what playing well is?  Is hitting .200 w/ a few HR playing well?

I assume a player has to be playing very poorly like sub .100 for the union not to try and collect the player's pay.

I believe there is language in the CBA leaving it to the team’s “discretion.”  To my memory, Miguel Gonzalez and Yolmer Sanchez were borh released from major league contracts late in spring training on this basis, and collected only whatever fraction of their pay was due if released by that deadline.

[Tony-OH]

On 10/20/2022 at 5:31 PM, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think any of us are anti-Elias or don't acknowledge that Elias has done a lot to improve things.

What some of us push back on are specific things he does that we don't agree with and the fawning attitude toward him that some fans have.

For example someone the other week was saying how they rated him as the second best GM (type) in baseball, over folks like Alex Anthopoulos.

This. I like a lot of things Elias has done, but if DD would have signed Bemboom to a 40-man contract the pitchforks would be out around here. 

I just call each move as I see them and the Bemboom and Cave moves make zero sense. I can't even wrap my head around the Bemboom move in any way. Bemboom would have clearly been available on a minor league contract with a spring training invitation without being put on the 40-man roster.

But yeah, I'm also pushing back against this sudden thought process that Elias can do no wrong and whatever he's doing must make complete sense, even when the move makes zero sense to anyone who has followed baseball moves closely.

The thought process of "Eh, who cares right now" also bugs me because these moves are giving us a glimpse of the organization's priorities after the season.

I still have no idea with all the owner strife and lawsuits whether Elias will be able to spend this offseason. If not, he'll need to be very shrewd in his moves this offseason and he's not off to a good start in my opinion.

As always though, if he makes moves I agree with or like, I'll give him props but I'm not just going to overlook unnecessary moves that make no sense and shrug them off like he has some master plan for these players.