Correa opts out…should the Os pursue him?

[oriolediehard]

Shouldn't the O's plan for Jackson Holiday to be our future long term SS?   I think we would need to sign Corea long term to get him to sign with us.  Our future is elsewhere.

How about Westburg 2B  Holiday SS and  Henderson at 3B?  This is our future.

 

 

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Well I think you undervalue him but he's one, of a few, bridge options to Holliday, and one must assume that Holliday is the long term plan at SS, and he's only a few years away.

Im Not sure how I’m undervaluing him.  I’m just not going to overrate a sub 650 OPs player who just played defense at a level he never has before.  
 

I have said I think he will be the starting SS next year, which I think is a mistake but at least we have depth and can move on from him quickly.

Hes just not an everyday player, especially when you have better options.

[Il BuonO]

Similar to what SG said, a year ago I would have said,”Heck, yeah!” But today Henderson is my guy at SS going forward. 

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Well I think you undervalue him but he's one, of a few, bridge options to Holliday, and one must assume that Holliday is the long term plan at SS, and he's only a few years away.

It's interesting to me that people just assume that Holliday is the SS of the future.   We don't know a whole lot about his defense at SS.   There's a chance that Gunnar is a better SS now and long term.  Possible.  Just saying.   Holliday is 18.   He's not tall.  He may fill out and not have great range.  Who knows?    It's a bit early to assume he's the best SS option in the system.   He looks like he's going to be very good offensively and he's "supposed" to be solid defensively but everyone is just handing him the SS job in 2-3 years.

[Low Country Bird]

No.  I think I'll take my chances of having a starting SS from one of Henderson, Ortiz or Westburg.  With Ortiz, we at least are likely to get the + defense we got from Mateo.  Henderson at 3B and either Norby or Westburg at 2B (with the other one traded as part of a package for a TOR pitcher or middle of lineup bat).  I'd much rather sign or trade for a 1B/DH type or an OF for the middle of the line-up.  

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Im Not sure how I’m undervaluing him.  I’m just not going to overrate a sub 650 OPs player who just played defense at a level he never has before.  
 

I have said I think he will be the starting SS next year, which I think is a mistake but at least we have depth and can move on from him quickly.

Hes just not an everyday player, especially when you have better options.

Well you undervalue him by not valuing him as what he is: An everyday player.  Yes, he's a poor hitter, but he does literally everything else on the field exceptionally well.  Culmulatively he's an above average regular, or at least he performed as one this year.  You don't think he'll maintain that going forward; I do.  We'll have to wait and see.

I look at this as an 80/20 situation, like the Ravens approach things.

Mateo provides 80% of the value of for 20% of the cost.  In reality, it's probably more like 70/5.

[StottyByNature]

I wouldn't want him on a long term deal, which is obviously what he is seeking.  We need to value our payroll flexibility and pursue high AAV guys with shorter term deals.  I'd focus the offseason on improving starting pitching and figuring out what to do with 2B and 1B.  

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

It's interesting to me that people just assume that Holliday is the SS of the future.   We don't know a whole lot about his defense at SS.   There's a chance that Gunnar is a better SS now and long term.  Possible.  Just saying.   Holliday is 18.   He's not tall.  He may fill out and not have great range.  Who knows?    It's a bit early to assume he's the best SS option in the system.   He looks like he's going to be very good offensively and he's "supposed" to be solid defensively but everyone is just handing him the SS job in 2-3 years.

No doubt.  I don't like counting on any prospect, as we've discussed in regards to the infield situation next year.

But with Holliday we have to assume they took him at 1/1, and called him a shortstop very specifically, for a reason.

Holliday may not work out for a variety of reasons, but surely he is the long-term plan.

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Low Country Bird said:

No.  I think I'll take my chances of having a starting SS from one of Henderson, Ortiz or Westburg.  With Ortiz, we at least are likely to get the + defense we got from Mateo.  Henderson at 3B and either Norby or Westburg at 2B (with the other one traded as part of a package for a TOR pitcher or middle of lineup bat).  I'd much rather sign or trade for a 1B/DH type or an OF for the middle of the line-up.  

There's no way in hell Ortiz can defend at SS like Mateo.

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

No doubt.  I don't like counting on any prospect, as we've discussed in regards to the infield situation next year.

But with Holliday we have to assume they took him at 1/1, and called him a shortstop very specifically, for a reason.

Holliday may not work out for a variety of reasons, but surely he is the long-term plan.

Bobby Witt Jr.   You never know.

[Moose Milligan]

Ugh, no.  

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Bobby Witt Jr.   You never know.

Aren't you the one eager to hand over at least one starting job, if not two,  to a couple of decent prospects next year?

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

There's no way in hell Ortiz can defend at SS like Mateo.

I have a feeling it's a lot closer than you think.   Of course, there aren't many who have watched Ortiz play SS extensively.   No one was talking about Mateo defensively a year ago either.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Aren't you the one eager to hand over at least one starting job, if not two,  to a couple of decent prospects next year?

I'm talking about guys who are at AAA and going by reports on their defense.   That's a lot different than a kid who has played 5-10 games in low A.   Also, what's that got to do with the fact that Bobby Witt was drafted 1:2 overall as a SS and was found lacking defensively at the ML level.   Holliday could be a GG caliber SS.  I'm just saying it's too early to annoint him that.

Edited October 13, 2022 by RZNJ

[Pickles]

Just now, RZNJ said:

I have a feeling it's a lot closer than you think.   Of course, there aren't many who have watched Ortiz play SS extensively.   No one was talking about Mateo defensively a year ago either.

I was.  I complimented him almost as soon as he came over from San Diego.  He was much more fundamentally sound than I expected.

Now, I didn't expect him to pick it like he did this year, but he obviously was a natural SS.

I should apologize though because when I responded to that post I was actually thinking of Urias.

Ortiz is described as a natural ss as well, so it's certainly a lot closer than it is with Urias, but I think it's folly to expect any prospect to match GG defense.