How much better would Carlos Correa make the O's?

[DrungoHazewood]

31 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sign him and then trade one of the big prospect pieces for pitching.

That makes sense.

I wouldn't do it but it makes sense.

I think sometimes people underestimate the effort required to execute a signing or a trade.  Signing Correa not only takes time and effort and money, but it also necessitates several other transactions to make the roster and the organization's talent balance work out. There are only so many things a front office can do in one offseason.  Trading one of the big prospect pieces for pitching is going to be at least weeks of effort unless something magically falls into their laps.  Then they still have to do all the other things they need to fill out the roster and improve the team.

It's like the conversations about increasing payroll to $125M this year.  That's just not really feasible, there's only so much you can do and there are 29 other teams trying to get better than you at the same time.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

30 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Agree with SG, there's no way to cut it that makes sense.

But to your point about where does Westburg/Ortiz/Norby go, some of these guys are going to get traded, most likely.  I don't see any situation, even without Correa, where we keep all those guys and they're all every day contributors.  

This is a positive problem, a lot of talent and not enough spots.  I hope that if Ortiz gets traded, we've got someone that'll check on @RZNJto make sure he's ok.  Fermi, don't get too attached to these guys like RZNJ has, you're only asking for heartbreak.

Oh, for sure. I doubt that all of Urias, Mateo, Westburg, Ortiz, and Norby will be in the organization by Opening Day 2023.

And I only let myself get attached to the highest draft picks. Heston Kjerstad is going to be STUD for tbe Orioles and I will cage fight any man who says otherwise!

[vab]

As long as that left field wall is where it is, I'm not spending that kind of money on a right-handed bat. 

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, vab said:

As long as that left field wall is where it is, I'm not spending that kind of money on a right-handed bat. 

This kind of thinking is off base IMO.   It’s like saying you don’t sign Joe DiMaggio to play in old Yankee Stadium.  Good hitters will find a way to hit well at OPACY.   And, last time I checked, the O’s still play half their games on the road.  By the way:

Mountcastle had a .767 OPS at home, .691 on the road.

Mancini had a .760 OPS at home, .740 on the road while with the O’s.

Hays had a .748 OPS at home, .691 on the road.

All RH hitters.  The only two regulars with a better OPS at OPACY were the switch hitters Rutschman and Santander.   All the LH hitters were worse at OPACY than those three RH hitters.

Just find good hitters, and they’ll figure it out.

 

 

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, vab said:

As long as that left field wall is where it is, I'm not spending that kind of money on a right-handed bat. 

It had a larger impact on lefties than righties.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm just spitballing here when I say I'm really not interested in Correa.  As mentioned, we've got enough SS/MI talent currently and on the horizon.  I'd rather take dollars aimed at Correa and spend them elsewhere.

I'm sure he'd look good in orange and black and I'd have no problem rooting for him if we landed him but I'm more interested to see what Henderson and Holiday have at SS and Ortiz, too.  Spending big money on a strength like this doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.  

You and I don’t have to be … I suspect Elias is. Plus as I mentioned you can deal some the infield talent to get a TOR.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Lol, Burnes for Ortiz. Not happening. Burnes isn't going anywhere without a top 100 prospect. The Reds got Marte for 1.5 years of Castillo who is a much worse pitcher. Marte was #21 MLB at the time, plus Reds got two of their other top five, including Arroyo, a borderline top 100. 

I don't see Correa taking less than 6 years at this point in his career. He has already played the opt out game. If we can get him 6/$208M, yeah, I would have to jump on that but somebody is going to outbid us. 

Don’t be ridiculous…. I didn’t suggest a 1 for 1.

[Aristotelian]

11 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Don’t be ridiculous…. I didn’t suggest a 1 for 1.

What are you suggesting?

[Just Regular]

I think its logical to acquire 5+ win players anytime you can.    Earl said just give me all the bleepin' shortstops and he'll sort it out.

Just the coincidence of our GM and Correa's history makes it a juicier speculation, but I also think there's a fringe benefit if they like Mateo for a super-sub role.     I believe it would be easier for Hyde to sell unseating Mateo with Correa than Urias with Gunnar.

We know generically Decision Sciences thinks Bats safer than Arms, at least while you are just in talent accumulation phase.     The '23-'24 Adley teams before Holliday are no sure bet to have a winning SS.    As is the Orioles are probably going to be in the Bottom 5-10 of something like Fangraphs SS power rankings, and they could easily be there again next year.    Mateo's top of his range (probably) 2022 put BAL 14th in WAA for shortstop last year.

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I think its logical to acquire 5+ win players anytime you can.    Earl said just give me all the bleepin' shortstops and he'll sort it out.

Just the coincidence of our GM and Correa's history makes it a juicier speculation, but I also think there's a fringe benefit if they like Mateo for a super-sub role.     I believe it would be easier for Hyde to sell unseating Mateo with Correa than Urias with Gunnar.

We know generically Decision Sciences thinks Bats safer than Arms, at least while you are just in talent accumulation phase.     The '23-'24 Adley teams before Holliday are no sure bet to have a winning SS.    As is the Orioles are probably going to be in the Bottom 5-10 of something like Fangraphs SS power rankings, and they could easily be there again next year.    Mateo's top of his range (probably) 2022 put BAL 14th in WAA for shortstop last year.

I would suggest that Mateo and Urias should probably both be dealt if Correa were signed.  Barring a trade, you’d have Westburg at 2B, and Ortiz would be the perfect utility IF, with Norby providing a further safety net at AAA.   Mateo and Urías in sepárate deals or packaged for any number of things.   

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I think its logical to acquire 5+ win players anytime you can.    Earl said just give me all the bleepin' shortstops and he'll sort it out.

Just the coincidence of our GM and Correa's history makes it a juicier speculation, but I also think there's a fringe benefit if they like Mateo for a super-sub role.     I believe it would be easier for Hyde to sell unseating Mateo with Correa than Urias with Gunnar.

We know generically Decision Sciences thinks Bats safer than Arms, at least while you are just in talent accumulation phase.     The '23-'24 Adley teams before Holliday are no sure bet to have a winning SS.    As is the Orioles are probably going to be in the Bottom 5-10 of something like Fangraphs SS power rankings, and they could easily be there again next year.    Mateo's top of his range (probably) 2022 put BAL 14th in WAA for shortstop last year.

Correa isn’t a 5 WAR guy and isn’t likely to be one going forward either.

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I would suggest that Mateo and Urias should probably both be dealt if Correa were signed.  Barring a trade, you’d have Westburg at 2B, and Ortiz would be the perfect utility IF, with Norby providing a further safety net at AAA.   Mateo and Urías in sepárate deals or packaged for any number of things.   

And what do you do when Holliday is ready? 

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Correa isn’t a 5 WAR guy and isn’t likely to be one going forward either.

I think you’re wrong.  The question is his durability.  Over 145 games, he’s prove that he is a 5 WAR player.

[Fiver6565]

Not sure if Correa makes us statistically better via WAR or other stats, but making up lineups in my head that include him is really fun, regardless.  Even with no other additions, our lineup could look like this:

 

Correa SS

Rutschman C

Henderson 3B

Santander DH/RF

Mountcastle 1B

Stowers RF/DH

Hays LF

Mullins CF

Mateo 2B

Urias is your super sub, able cover 2B/3B/SS and be quite good defensively w/ pop.  Cowers can replace Hays if the latter starts off as bad as he finished 2022.  And you have Westburg/Ortiz et al for trades or backup plans.  That's a damn fun lineup right there.

If you wanted to keep Mullins up top, maybe against right handers, something like this -

Mullins

Correa

 

Rutschman

Santander

Henderson

Mountcastle

Stowers

Hays

Mateo

 

[RZNJ]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

And what do you do when Holliday is ready? 

Wing it.  Correa will probably have some kind of opt out after 3 years, which would be just fine.  You can also trade him.  You can also move him to 3B and trade Gunnar for a haul.   Ask me in 2-3 years.