Orioles sign Kyle Gibson

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I DO WHAT I WANT 

 

I'd be absolutely thrilled to get served a piping hot plate of crow and a tall glass of humble tea in the unlikely event that Gibson has a late career renaissance here and dramatically outperforms Lyles' 2022. That would be awesome.

With the caveat of "if we aren't going to try to improve."

I'd rather have neither and use that spot in the rotation on someone who isn't below average like Lyles or Gibson.

 

1 hour ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I DO WHAT I WANT 

 

I'd be absolutely thrilled to get served a piping hot plate of crow and a tall glass of humble tea in the unlikely event that Gibson has a late career renaissance here and dramatically outperforms Lyles' 2022. That would be awesome.

With the caveat of "if we aren't going to try to improve."

I'd rather have neither and use that spot in the rotation on someone who isn't below average like Lyles or Gibson.

Why mention Lyles at all? That was the only piece of your rants that I've been taking issue with. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

 

Why mention Lyles at all? 

The point I was making is that the difference between what Lyles gave us last year and what Gibson is likely to give us next year is so negligible that I don't really care all that much which one is given the rotation spot. It may have been a somewhat hyperbolic way of expressing it, but neither one actually makes us any better than we were in 2022 so I wouldn't have particularly cared if they just decided to stick with the devil we already knew and hope for similar results.

1 hour ago, orioles22 said:

I keep waiting on the Marlins trade. It seems we have plenty of pieces to include in a deal.

 

The Marlins are not rushing into anything, which I fully understand. They have very little money to spend so they need to make the absolute most of their trade chips. I would expect the pace to pick up during the meetings this week, they will definitely have a lot of teams looking to meet with them and get a deal done. Hopefully we match up well with what they are looking for and their demands aren't too outrageous, Lopez is probably the best SP we can reasonably hope for this offseason.

[Roll Tide]

Quote

* The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reported today that Gibson accepted the Orioles’ offer over an identical one from another club based on three important factors.

Citing a source, Rosenthal said Gibson was drawn to the Orioles’ infield defense, the presence of catcher Adley Rutschman and the “pitcher-friendly environment” created by altering the dimensions in left field.

Orioles infielders were plus-15 in defensive runs saved, tied for sixth in the majors. Second base could be upgraded after Rougned Odor registered a minus-9 per FanGraphs.com.

Ramon Urías is a candidate to play second base after winning a Gold Glove at third in the American League.

Gibson, 35, initially figures to slot near the back end of the rotation, but obviously could move up depending on other moves and spring training competitions.

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/notes-on-some-orioles-promotions-gibson-and-new-hall-of-fame-inductee

Edited December 5, 2022 by Roll Tide

[RVAOsFan]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/notes-on-some-orioles-promotions-gibson-and-new-hall-of-fame-inductee

Wow, this seems like a pretty big deal. I don’t remember pitchers ever saying money the same I want to go pitch for the Orioles.  The draft strategy the past few years of passing on pitching and loading up on the bats all starts to make sense. 

[Frobby]

As I’ve thought about it, the O’s had three options to improve the pitching this offseason:

1.  Acquire two pitchers significantly better than Lyles.

2.  Acquire two pitchers, one significantly better than Lyles and one at about Lyles’ level.

3.  Acquire one pitcher significantly better than Lyles.

Option 1 would have been nice, but maybe too expensive.   So then you have the legit question of what’s better, option 2 or option 3.   It’s debatable.  We could have just ridden with Kremer, Bradish, Rodriguez, Hall, Voth and Wells to fill the four spots.   Is Gibson definitely better than any of those guys?   I’d say not definitely, but probably, and he had the track record of throwing enough innings to qualify the last five years in a row.  So, he puts us in a better position depth-wise and adds some stability.

I’m fine with Option 2, so long as we carry it out and acquire another pitcher significantly better than Lyles.  
 

[Matt Bennett]

Spot on @DrinkinWithFermi

I think fans and management are in agreement that 2 starting pitcher additions this off-season felt right. That one of those slots will go to Kyle Gibson is disappointing, regardless of their 2nd SP move. This is a man with a 81 ERA+ last year and a 94 ERA+ for his career. Yes yes the wall will help him, Adley will help him, our defense will help him. All those factors would help a better pitcher too. The whole reason I was happy we declined Jordan Lyles' option was not because of the cost or that there wasn't enough room in the rotation at that point, but because Lyles isn't good enough to be in our 2023 rotation. I want to push out Austin Voth into a swing man role and Tyler Wells into a back end bullpen role because they may not be good enough for the 2023 rotation. Is Kyle Gibson better than Austin Voth or Tyler Wells? Maybe. I was looking for a definitive "yes" out of the 2 SP additions.

The 2022 Orioles were good, not great. We could probably do nothing this off-season, instead just relying on in-house options, and remain good. But good won't cut it in the AL East. Does Kyle Gibson push us any closer to great? 

[DirtyBird]

People are making way too big of a deal about this signing

[DrinkinWithFermi]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Option 1 would have been nice, but maybe too expensive.  

It really feels that with a bottom 3 payroll, adding 2 mid-rotation starters in free agency should be possible, but even if that is not the case, adding one via free agency and one via trade with our large stack of trade chips definitely should have been feasible. Pablo Lopez, Chris Flexen, and Marco Gonzalez are all would-be Lyles upgrades who reports say are available via trade, and others not yet publicly named may be out there as well, plus free agency offered around a dozen guys who would be upgrades over Lyles that wouldn't cost $30 million a year. Instead we settled for a below average 35 year old whose career ERA+ is almost identical to what Lyles produced for us last year before the winter meetings even started and almost everyone was still on the board.

But what's done is done and it is what it is, now Elias needs to go out and find the best true upgrade for the rotation that he can with whatever resources he has, and get them into an Orioles uniform. He says that the goal is to improve the team with outside additions this offseason and I am hopeful that he proves to be a man of his word, but I am definitely a lot more skeptical now about ownership's commitment to winning than I was last week.

17 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

People are making way too big of a deal about this signing

Some people were simply under the impression that we had finally reached a point in our Odyssey-like rebuild after last season where we would begin trying to replace below average players like Lyles with above average players instead of different below average players like Gibson. That was clearly unreasonable and I apologize for that.

30 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

The whole reason I was happy we declined Jordan Lyles' option was not because of the cost or that there wasn't enough room in the rotation at that point, but because Lyles isn't good enough to be in our 2023 rotation.

Same here, but it's clear now that we were being selfish, greedy, and unreasonable. With payroll being as high as it is and the farm being as barren as it is, we should just be grateful if we can field a full 26 man roster next year 

[Flash- bd]

Wells, Kremer, Bradish, Grayson, Gibson, newly acquired pitcher. 

Voth, DL Hall, and Means in the wings / pen. 

Looks about right, no? 

Is Gibson better than Voth? I think we tend to forget how good Voth's numbers are since he became a starter with us last season. 

[NCRaven]

Voth is acceptable if '22 is the norm and you ignore every other data point in his career.

[orioles119]

3 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

People are making way too big of a deal about this signing

Welcome to the Internet.  First day?

[DirtyBird]

3 hours ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Some people were simply under the impression that we had finally reached a point in our Odyssey-like rebuild after last season where we would begin trying to replace below average players like Lyles with above average players instead of different below average players like Gibson. That was clearly unreasonable and I apologize for that.

If you think this signing prevents us from improving the roster, then you are making too big of a deal about the signing.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

If you think this signing prevents us from improving the roster, then you are making too big of a deal about the signing.

Other moves will obviously still be made, but Lyles' rotation spot could have pretty easily been upgraded for next year and it wasn't, which caps how much the rotation can improve overall year over year.

[Flash- bd]

1 hour ago, NCRaven said:

Voth is acceptable if '22 is the norm and you ignore every other data point in his career.

Well, I think it's pretty clear they figured out something with Voth and that the Baltimore version has little to do with the Washington version. 

[DirtyBird]

32 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Other moves will obviously still be made, but Lyles' rotation spot could have pretty easily been upgraded for next year and it wasn't, which caps how much the rotation can improve overall year over year.

Lyles rotation spot was #1 in starts, #1 in innings and #1 in wins.

If you think Gibson is taking over all those spots in the rotation, I think you are wrong.