Mateo Trade Potential

[HakunaSakata]

2 hours ago, emmett16 said:

It also seems outrageous to me that a 23 y/o who hasn't had a single AB in MLB is going to come up and hit enough to 'more than make-up for any drop off in defense'.  A quick search would find that Mateo out OPS'd Ortiz @ same age in AAA.  What makes you think Ortiz will come up hit better than Mateo?

Did I bring up Ortiz earlier? If I did it was a mistake and I meant Urias. Mateo and Urias is who I was comparing and I think the Baseball Savant pages make the case for why Urias is a better hitter. 

[spleen1015]

27 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Isn't it awesome to be way smarter than the guys who actually evaluate talent and run the baseball operation?  I'm glad we have those guys, so emotion doesn't cloud goo decision-making.  I think there are many that would disagree with the notion that right now, Gunnar is the better defensive SS.  We all know about the hitting, but defense matters too, and apparently is very important to Elias and Hyde because, well, they're smart.

I guess we should quit talking about what moves we'd all like to see our favorite teams make.

[DirtyBird]

27 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

How could you possibly look at both of these pages and say Urias and Mateo are equal offensively?

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jorge-mateo-622761?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/ramon-urias-602104?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

I didn't say they were equal offensively.

I said that left side infield combinations are equal (Gunnar/Mateo and Urias/Gunnar), with the edge going to the option that makes Gunnar a full time 3B now.

That said, factoring in baserunning, Fangraphs has Mateo -5 runs vs avg and Urias +2. Not a huge difference over the course of 162 games, and I'd prefer to get more offense out of my 3B.

[CaptDbog]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

I didn't say they were equal offensively.

I said that left side infield combinations are equal (Gunnar/Mateo and Urias/Gunnar), with the edge going to the option that makes Gunnar a full time 3B now.

That said, factoring in baserunning, Fangraphs has Mateo -5 runs vs avg and Urias +2. Not a huge difference over the course of 162 games, and I'd prefer to get more offense out of my 3B.

Can Gunnar play good SS defense or is he not a fit there?  Apologies if this was already answered.  I would rather keep Urias at 3rd with his outstanding defense and good OBP. 

[btdart20]

22 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Isn't it awesome to be way smarter than the guys who actually evaluate talent and run the baseball operation?  I'm glad we have those guys, so emotion doesn't cloud goo decision-making.  I think there are many that would disagree with the notion that right now, Gunnar is the better defensive SS.  We all know about the hitting, but defense matters too, and apparently is very important to Elias and Hyde because, well, they're smart.

The thing is that the smart guys are leaving the door open to Gunnar being a plus SS option (full package of offense/defense) and yet we're saying to have him play 3B full time because:

* that's the direction of the org even while saying prospects aren't sure things but we know the direction of the org.  

* we have half-a-stud (the defensive half) currently playing SS and think it's better to sit the GG 3B more often.  

FWIW, I trust the smart guys.  I get the idea behind Gunnar playing 3B.  I must trust the prospects more than the smart guys do because I question some of the things the smart guys are doing personally.  But I also know there's a method to their madness.  I don't trust Mateo to change his spots offensively, but I will say he's one of the most exciting players on the team.  He's just fun to watch.  And I think that's the emotions we have as fans building a team.

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

The thing is that the smart guys are leaving the door open to Gunnar being a plus SS option (full package of offense/defense) and yet we're saying to have him play 3B full time because:

* that's the direction of the org even while saying prospects aren't sure things but we know the direction of the org.  

* we have half-a-stud (the defensive half) currently playing SS and think it's better to sit the GG 3B more often.  

FWIW, I trust the smart guys.  I get the idea behind Gunnar playing 3B.  I must trust the prospects more than the smart guys do because I question some of the things the smart guys are doing personally.  But I also know there's a method to their madness.  I don't trust Mateo to change his spots offensively, but I will say he's one of the most exciting players on the team.  He's just fun to watch.  And I think that's the emotions we have as fans building a team.

Why did Elias say that Urias would be playing some 2B?

Who plays 3B in that scenario?

[NCRaven]

Just now, DirtyBird said:

Why did Elias say that Urias would be playing some 2B?

Who plays 3B in that scenario?

Really?  Gunnar Henderson

[emmett16]

53 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Look at their basebal savant pages that I posted in a prior reply. The underlying metrics certainly point to Ortiz being a much better hitter. 

I think so too.  But you never know until they do it at the highest level.  

[sportsfan8703]

13 minutes ago, CaptDbog said:

Can Gunnar play good SS defense or is he not a fit there?  Apologies if this was already answered.  I would rather keep Urias at 3rd with his outstanding defense and good OBP. 

Gunnar only played 1 game at SS last season, but if you remember... he had two highlight plays.  He's long and athletic, with a cannon arm.  I don't think we'd lose any defense between he and Mateo, but that's my opinion.  Joey Ortiz also is ready to step in, and it seems we always forget about Westburg.  Holliday should be in the mix for OD 24'.  

This is the perfect time to trade Mateo.  Getting back a SP is the type of move that really helps solidify us as a legit playoff team.  

[CaptDbog]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Gunnar only played 1 game at SS last season, but if you remember... he had two highlight plays.  He's long and athletic, with a cannon arm.  I don't think we'd lose any defense between he and Mateo, but that's my opinion.  Joey Ortiz also is ready to step in, and it seems we always forget about Westburg.  Holliday should be in the mix for OD 24'.  

This is the perfect time to trade Mateo.  Getting back a SP is the type of move that really helps solidify us as a legit playoff team.  

Thanks for the info. I was going to bring up Westburg but it seems like he is the odd man to many people.  I think Westburg's future will be at 3rd base, he has a strong arm and hands (based on my limited knowledge). I think he could play in the outfield as well because of his arm. Don't sleep on Westburg! 

[sevastras]

6 hours ago, LTO's said:

Agreed that a trade is highly unlikely. Trades are extremely difficult to pull off in general but especially in this case. Only SG thinks that they are really easy and anyone not doing them is stupid.

 

Jtrea would have had a three team trade all figured out by now. 

[Morgan423]

I was hoping we'd keep Mateo and let him be our heavily playing super-utility guy once the dust settled on the infield.  The glove and the speed are so, so very good.

But really, we have just got to move him if some team is going to overpay us for him.  It's the nature of having depth, and it feels very good that we're even in this position to potentially trade from it ... there was nothing there for such a long time.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Gunnar only played 1 game at SS last season, but if you remember... he had two highlight plays.  He's long and athletic, with a cannon arm.  I don't think we'd lose any defense between he and Mateo, but that's my opinion.  Joey Ortiz also is ready to step in, and it seems we always forget about Westburg.  Holliday should be in the mix for OD 24'.  

This is the perfect time to trade Mateo.  Getting back a SP is the type of move that really helps solidify us as a legit playoff team.  

I think there’s a fairly broad consensus that defensively, our shortstops rank Mateo > Ortiz > Henderson > Westburg. There’s little doubt that Henderson plays SS well enough to be a starter there, but if he was on the field along with Mateo, you’d put Mateo at SS.   

[sportsfan8703]

22 hours ago, btdart20 said:

The thing is that the smart guys are leaving the door open to Gunnar being a plus SS option (full package of offense/defense) and yet we're saying to have him play 3B full time because:

* that's the direction of the org even while saying prospects aren't sure things but we know the direction of the org.  

* we have half-a-stud (the defensive half) currently playing SS and think it's better to sit the GG 3B more often.  

FWIW, I trust the smart guys.  I get the idea behind Gunnar playing 3B.  I must trust the prospects more than the smart guys do because I question some of the things the smart guys are doing personally.  But I also know there's a method to their madness.  I don't trust Mateo to change his spots offensively, but I will say he's one of the most exciting players on the team.  He's just fun to watch.  And I think that's the emotions we have as fans building a team.

I’m on the Gunnar at SS side for this year, but the only player that should be keeping Gunnar off SS is Jackson Holliday. Maybe we move Holliday to CF ala Trea Turner. 
 

I think the Lux injury presents us an opportunity to reallocate our SS resources a little bit. However, it takes two to make a trade, and the Dodgers have to want Mateo. I don’t think the Marlins were ever a real fit because they decided to go with more offense, sacrifice defense, and deal an older version of Mateo. 
 

This could be breaking perfectly for Elias. He could get to trade Mateo and Hernaiz, and possibly bring back 2-3 MLB SPs. That’s a ton of value. Those moves keep you from having to overpay for the Gallardos and Ubaldos of the FA market. 

[Just Regular]

Not a Win Now team, but the Rockies' Brendan Rodgers injury might be most of the year.     Elias has done a deal with COL before.

Do we even want German Marquez anymore?