Maybe Frazier can play

[RZNJ]

Is this the thread where we can talk about the ESPN top 100 prospects?

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Is this the thread where we can talk about the ESPN top 100 prospects?

Sure. WESTBURG AND ORTIZ ARE BEING BLOCKED BY FRAZIER!!!!   

[Sports Guy]

33 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sure. WESTBURG AND ORTIZ ARE BEING BLOCKED BY FRAZIER!!!!   

But it’s ok because their careers won’t be harmed by playing in a league for another season that they have no business being in anymore.

[ThisIsBirdland]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But it’s ok because their careers won’t be harmed by playing in a league for another season that they have no business being in anymore.

Sports Guy wakes up, scans the web for any mention of Adam Frazier, puts on his war paint, and goes to work.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Sports Guy wakes up, scans the web for any mention of Adam Frazier, puts on his war paint, and goes to work.

What are you talking about?  He sleeps with it on.

[Frobby]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But it’s ok because their careers won’t be harmed by playing in a league for another season that they have no business being in anymore.

Here’s part of the very first post I ever wrote about Frazier: “For me the big question is, why get him at all when you already have Urias and Vavra, with Westburg and Norby knocking on the door?”  (I didn’t mention Ortiz because I think of him as a SS.) So, it’s not like I want to see those guys blocked.  

But that thread went on for 61 pages and Tony closed it because the points were getting so redundant.   Then someone opened a poll on the topic, that ran for 14 pages.   I voted that the acquisition was not good, and commented “the strategic fit is the issue.”

Then wildcard started this thread, now 12 pages long.  It was supposed to be about Frazier’s merits as a player, especially on defense, but quickly devolved into a repetition of points made in the previous two threads plus a couple of dozen other threads on other topics.  

So, the point is, I’m sick of seeing the same points discussed in every thread.  Even points I fundamentally agree with.  And I’m tired of every little issue being treated like it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened in the history of civilization.  

It would have been nice to actually discuss the O’s players in the top 100 without diverting it into yet one more discussion about Frazier.   


 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Frobby

[Sports Guy]

37 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Here’s part of the very first post I ever wrote about Frazier: “For me the big question is, why get him at all when you already have Urias and Vavra, with Westburg and Norby knocking on the door?”  (I didn’t mention Ortiz because I think of him as a SS.) So, it’s not like I want to see those guys blocked.  

But that thread went on for 61 pages and Tony closed it because the points were getting so redundant.   Then someone opened a poll on the topic, that ran for 14 pages.   I voted that the acquisition was not good, and commented “the strategic fit is the issue.”

Then wildcard started this thread, now 12 pages long.  It was supposed to be about Frazier’s merits as a player, especially on defense, but quickly devolved into a repetition of points made in the previous two threads plus a couple of dozen other threads on other topics.  

So, the point is, I’m sick of seeing the same points discussed in every thread.  Even points I fundamentally agree with.  And I’m tired of every little issue being treated like it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened in the history of civilization.  

It would have been nice to actually discuss the O’s players in the top 100 without diverting it into yet one more discussion about Frazier.   


 

You can always ignore it.

And we are all glad to hear what you are tired of. I mean, if you are tired of it, I guess that means everyone should stop talking about it. 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Sports Guy

[tntoriole]

The intensity and venom of animosity about this one move is pretty much unparalleled in all the years I can recall on this board.  It is very peculiar. 

[ChuckS]

15 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

The intensity and venom of animosity about this one move is pretty much unparalleled in all the years I can recall on this board.  It is very peculiar. 

It's the money.  Because the money dictates that he's likely to play nearly every day or at least get 400 at bats as the big half of a platoon. 

If Frazier had only signed for three or four mil and the intention was to use him strictly as a utility player, I don't think there would be nearly the uproar over it.  There is also the hang over from Odor. 

I'm 40 percent confident that Frazier has a decent season and isn't a complete dud. But if he is a dud, there is little confidence that it will have a major impact on his playing time.  That's the biggest sense of dread I have with the move. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by ChuckS

[tntoriole]

16 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

It's the money.  Because the money dictates that he's likely to play nearly every day or at least get 400 at bats as the big half of a platoon. 

If Frazier had only signed for three or four mil and the intention was to use him strictly as a utility player, I don't think there would be nearly the uproar over it.  There is also the hang over from Odor. 

I'm 40 percent confident that Frazier has a decent season and isn't a complete dud. But if he is a dud, there is little confidence that it will have a major impact on his playing time.  That's the biggest sense of dread I have with the move. 

I understand the issues.  I was really just commenting on the intensity.  Almost every thread comments about this one move.  Maybe he represents some other frustrations with Orioles, Angelis, GMs etc .. but the issue is not my observation.  The only other similar intensity I remember was the flip opposite.. Nolan Reimold was an obsession for several seasons on this board.. promotors and detractors.  But it was far out of proportion to the facts of the situation. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, tntoriole said:

I understand the issues.  I was really just commenting on the intensity.  Almost every thread comments about this one move.  Maybe he represents some other frustrations with Orioles, Angelis, GMs etc .. but the issue is not my observation.  The only other similar intensity I remember was the flip opposite.. Nolan Reimold was an obsession for several seasons on this board.. promotors and detractors.  But it was far out of proportion to the facts of the situation. 

The Os have made like 4 noteworthy moves and, on their own, none of them are actually noteworthy.

There isn’t much else to talk about and that one decision effects so many different aspects of the team and so many other players.

It also calls into question the methodology on which this management group is determining who to bring in and it questions the use of the limited funds available at their disposal.

For years, we saw PA spend money..but it was almost always spent poorly. This is an example of a move where money was spent poorly.

So yea, it’s one move but that one move branches off into so many areas.

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

The Os have made like 4 noteworthy moves and, on their own, none of them are actually noteworthy.

There isn’t much else to talk about and that one decision effects so many different aspects of the team and so many other players.

It also calls into question the methodology on which this management group is determining who to bring in and it questions the use of the limited funds available at their disposal.

For years, we saw PA spend money..but it was almost always spent poorly. This is an example of a move where money was spent poorly.

So yea, it’s one move but that one move branches off into so many areas.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EuMJRXParUQ/T8Y99jvu6UI/AAAAAAAADjA/iZdAjn3-I3o/s1600/DoubleFacePalm.jpg

[turtlebowl]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

The Os have made like 4 noteworthy moves and, on their own, none of them are actually noteworthy.

There isn’t much else to talk about and that one decision effects so many different aspects of the team and so many other players.

It also calls into question the methodology on which this management group is determining who to bring in and it questions the use of the limited funds available at their disposal.

For years, we saw PA spend money..but it was almost always spent poorly. This is an example of a move where money was spent poorly.

So yea, it’s one move but that one move branches off into so many areas.

I won't say that I disagree with you assessment of the Frazier signing.  I was also totally against it.  But until the season plays out you can't say this was "money poorly spent"

What if Frazier has a career year and plays a large part of a playoff run?  What if we trade him 1/2 way through the season and get a top 10 organizational arm? We can focus on the concern of him blocking a prospect which frustrates many of us.  Like many I want to see Westburg have a legit opportunity to win the 2nd base job.  But I think we are all judging what we saw with Odor last year and making assumptions based off of that.  If it plays out similar to Odors situation then I will be at the gates with pitchforks standing right next to you. Just think it is too early to make the stance that Frazier was a horrible signing. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

The intensity and venom of animosity about this one move is pretty much unparalleled in all the years I can recall on this board.  It is very peculiar. 

Nah, we have one of these every year or so.  I would say the thing that sets the Frazier deal apart is that the intensity and the animosity is aimed at a subpar player in a way that's not been matched before. 

Well, maybe that's not true, it was aimed at Odor all last summer, with an eye on the horizon to the end of the season knowing that he wouldn't be brought back and we could celebrate that.  The Chris Davis saga. 

It wouldn't be the OH if there weren't someone or something that a lot of us were up in arms about at any given time.  Each team has a particular whipping boy, unfortunately for Frazier he's the one for 2023.

 

1 hour ago, ChuckS said:

It's the money.  Because the money dictates that he's likely to play nearly every day or at least get 400 at bats as the big half of a platoon. 

 

This is a big part of it for me, but not always for this reason.  The 8 million sucks but it's 8 million that could have been earmarked for a better pitcher than Gibson.  And so for me, these two deals are linked.  Gibson might be a modest upgrade over Lyles but that doesn't address that we needed a better pitcher, at legit #1 or #2.  They should have taken that 18 million and made a bigger move on a starting pitcher, of course it'd have to been for more than one year though. 

Or just signed Gibson and not spent 8 million.

 

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

The Os have made like 4 noteworthy moves and, on their own, none of them are actually noteworthy.

There isn’t much else to talk about and that one decision effects so many different aspects of the team and so many other players.

It also calls into question the methodology on which this management group is determining who to bring in and it questions the use of the limited funds available at their disposal.

For years, we saw PA spend money..but it was almost always spent poorly. This is an example of a move where money was spent poorly.

So yea, it’s one move but that one move branches off into so many areas.

This sums it up well, although I think the McCann move, while not noteworthy was pretty solid.  As solid as a backup catcher move can be.

And yes, there's not much else to talk about.

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, turtlebowl said:

I won't say that I disagree with you assessment of the Frazier signing.  I was also totally against it.  But until the season plays out you can't say this was "money poorly spent"

What if Frazier has a career year and plays a large part of a playoff run?  What if we trade him 1/2 way through the season and get a top 10 organizational arm? We can focus on the concern of him blocking a prospect which frustrates many of us.  Like many I want to see Westburg have a legit opportunity to win the 2nd base job.  But I think we are all judging what we saw with Odor last year and making assumptions based off of that.  If it plays out similar to Odors situation then I will be at the gates with pitchforks standing right next to you. Just think it is too early to make the stance that Frazier was a horrible signing. 

We're going down this road again because it's a Thursday and we don't have anything better to do....

You bring up some decent points but it's more important for an organizational standpoint to get a guy like Westburg playing time instead of someone like Frazier.  And that's why it's a horrible signing because the decision making behind it and the reasons to justify it are horrible, e.g., he stands in the left handed batters box, he can play multiple positions when we have players who can play those positions better.

Odds are against him for having a career year.  And even if he does, he's only here for a year.  So what would that do for the long term outlook of this team?  It's not just the fact that he blocks Westburg/Ortiz for a year or a better part of a year, it's that the move just doesn't provide an answer for the long term outlook of this team.