Maybe Frazier can play

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Maybe because he isn’t blocking anyone? I am supposed to believe Westburg will rot in AAA for years to come? 
 

I was going to just look past this thread but I can’t help myself. 

This is the exact kind of a move a team trying to contend makes. Not assuming things will go well. Trying to make the club deeper. If it doesn’t work out it harms next to nothing.  
 

I can be ticked off they haven’t added a big SP but that has no relevance to this move for me. None. 

Teams trying to contend spend 8 million on a one year contract for a 31 year old second baseman coming off a 0.9 win season and a .612 OPS? 

For the record Odor put up a .632 OPS last year. 
 

So you mean to tell me between Ortiz and Westburg we couldn’t scratch 1.0 win and saved ourselves 8 million while getting our better prospects playing time in Baltimore?

Frazier should be an upgrade over Odor, but that’s a low bar to hurdle. That upgrade should have been able to have been achieved with players we already have. If you can’t understand that, then there’s no use in continuing to talk about it. Between Ortiz, Westburg and Urias there’s depth and there’s upside. 
 

A one year contract doesn’t create depth. A one year contract is a band-aid. In this case it’s a band-aid for a problem that doesn’t exist. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[forphase1]

52 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Teams trying to contend spend 8 million on a one year contract for a 31 year old second baseman coming off a 0.9 win season and a .612 OPS? 

For the record Odor put up a .632 OPS last year. 
 

So you mean to tell me between Ortiz and Westburg we couldn’t scratch 1.0 win and saved ourselves 8 million while getting our better prospects playing time in Baltimore?

Frazier should be an upgrade over Odor, but that’s a low bar to hurdle. That upgrade should have been able to have been achieved with players we already have. If you can’t understand that, then there’s no use in continuing to talk about it. Between Ortiz, Westburg and Urias there’s depth and there’s upside. 
 

A one year contract doesn’t create depth. A one year contract is a band-aid. In this case it’s a band-aid for a problem that doesn’t exist. 

This ^^^^^   Exactly right.  

[eddie83]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Teams trying to contend spend 8 million on a one year contract for a 31 year old second baseman coming off a 0.9 win season and a .612 OPS? 

For the record Odor put up a .632 OPS last year. 
 

So you mean to tell me between Ortiz and Westburg we couldn’t scratch 1.0 win and saved ourselves 8 million while getting our better prospects playing time in Baltimore?

Frazier should be an upgrade over Odor, but that’s a low bar to hurdle. That upgrade should have been able to have been achieved with players we already have. If you can’t understand that, then there’s no use in continuing to talk about it. Between Ortiz, Westburg and Urias there’s depth and there’s upside. 
 

A one year contract doesn’t create depth. A one year contract is a band-aid. In this case it’s a band-aid for a problem that doesn’t exist. 

If the Orioles thought it was that simple and as cheap as they are why didn’t they do exactly that?

 

$8M is once again nothing. 

It creates depth for 2023. 
 

You can’t understand it’s entirely possible Frazier will be better than Westburg in 2023. 

[tntoriole]

5 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Teams trying to contend spend 8 million on a one year contract for a 31 year old second baseman coming off a 0.9 win season and a .612 OPS? 

For the record Odor put up a .632 OPS last year. 
 

So you mean to tell me between Ortiz and Westburg we couldn’t scratch 1.0 win and saved ourselves 8 million while getting our better prospects playing time in Baltimore?

Frazier should be an upgrade over Odor, but that’s a low bar to hurdle. That upgrade should have been able to have been achieved with players we already have. If you can’t understand that, then there’s no use in continuing to talk about it. Between Ortiz, Westburg and Urias there’s depth and there’s upside. 
 

A one year contract doesn’t create depth. A one year contract is a band-aid. In this case it’s a band-aid for a problem that doesn’t exist. 

Odor had negative WARs in 3 of his last 4 complete years in the majors .. not the same

Yes Frazier is 31 but that doesn’t mean that he cannot return to 2021 form.  In 2021 he was an AllStar and had a .779 OPS.  
 

I hope his ability has not vanished and that he will return to his career norms. 

[Moose Milligan]

6 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Odor had negative WARs in 3 of his last 4 complete years in the majors .. not the same

Yes Frazier is 31 but that doesn’t mean that he cannot return to 2021 form.  In 2021 he was an AllStar and had a .779 OPS.  
 

I hope his ability has not vanished and that he will return to his career norms. 

8 million is a good chunk of money to spend on hope. 
 

Odds are he’s in his declining years but I guess we all have to find out now. 

[Moose Milligan]

10 hours ago, eddie83 said:

If the Orioles thought it was that simple and as cheap as they are why didn’t they do exactly that?

 

$8M is once again nothing. 

It creates depth for 2023. 
 

You can’t understand it’s entirely possible Frazier will be better than Westburg in 2023. 

I can understand that it’s possible that Frazier is better than Westburg in 2023. 
 

But who has more upside in their career right now?

[tntoriole]

31 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

8 million is a good chunk of money to spend on hope. 
 

Odds are he’s in his declining years but I guess we all have to find out now. 

A GM traded a guy and said he was “an old 30” many years ago … who was that?  Lol.   Declining years?  I can’t even remember 31 …  I am in my declining years. Lol 

I hope he reads the board .. maybe it helps motivate to show us all what his decrepit, old self can do!! 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by tntoriole

[Sports Guy]

Josh Harrison will probably end up signing for less than Frazier, perhaps significantly less.

He could have been a “depth signing” and one that was an insurance policy for the younger players but one you don’t feel obligated to play almost everyday.

If the goal was just to “protect the kids”, that’s what they should have done.

But that wasn’t the goal. The goal was to find an everyday player who batted left handed. That was essentially the stated goal by Elias.

Because that was the goal, that means he is taking significant at bats away from the young players and that shouldn’t be happening.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I can understand that it’s possible that Frazier is better than Westburg in 2023. 
 

But who has more upside in their career right now?

Does not necessarily have to be Frazier vs Westburg. Frazier could cover left if Hays struggles or gets hurt, opening up 2B. Or Westburg could play 1B if Mountcastle is bad. Or he could play SS and force Mateo to utility/defensive replacement. He played the most games at SS last year and it's not like Mateo has more upside than Westburg either. 

[wildcard]

56 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Does not necessarily have to be Frazier vs Westburg. Frazier could cover left if Hays struggles or gets hurt, opening up 2B. Or Westburg could play 1B if Mountcastle is bad. Or he could play SS and force Mateo to utility/defensive replacement. He played the most games at SS last year and it's not like Mateo has more upside than Westburg either. 

I think we will find that Westburg doesn't have near the range of Mateo.  And that would hurt the pitchers.  I would rank the SS defensive as Mateo, Gunnar, Ortiz and then Westburg.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Does not necessarily have to be Frazier vs Westburg. Frazier could cover left if Hays struggles or gets hurt, opening up 2B. Or Westburg could play 1B if Mountcastle is bad. Or he could play SS and force Mateo to utility/defensive replacement. He played the most games at SS last year and it's not like Mateo has more upside than Westburg either. 

Frazier was signed because Elias had a stated goal of a LH 2nd baseman. Yes, he will likely see OF time but he was brought in to be a second baseman. He still plays good defense and we saw this team play Odor because they liked how he turned a double play.

Frazier is your everyday second baseman and will be so for a while. His contract guarantees him a lot of at bats, likely well over 400. The hope is if he is sucking, that the Os get away from him as basically an everyday (or very frequent start) player after the AS break.

 

[seak05]

In his interview yesterday Elias mentioned that Frazier could play corner of if Santander is DHing, and how they have a lot of guys with positional flexibility. 
 

With the DH, and including corner of, there are a lot of abs to go around. And hopefully that would mean you don’t have an obvious b lineup you have to play once a week 

[Aristotelian]

 

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

I think we will find that Westburg doesn't have near the range of Mateo.  And that would hurt the pitchers.  I would rank the SS defensive as Mateo, Gunnar, Ortiz and then Westburg.

I also think we have already found that Mateo can't hit, and it's too early to say on Ortiz. The question is whether Westburg can play adequately enough at SS that his bat forces his way into the position. 

Gunnar SS is a possibility but it sounds like Westburg doesn't like 3B. 

If Frazier is playing at a high level at 2B there are other options for Westburg. Admittedly, it is much more crowded with Frazier than without. 

[Tony-OH]

And here we are in the offseason where it's so boring, we have to bring up a conversation that we had beaten the horse to a bloody pulp!

As the owner of this place, I say bravo @wildcard!

At the end of the day, we all hope he does well now regardless of how we feel about the deal.

Saying that, if Westburg and/or Ortiz tear it up in AAA for the first two months, the conversation will get quite loud once again. 

Regardless, I think everyone expects him to be a good defender. That was never in question.

[Yossarian]

Could Frazier platoon some at 1B, if needed?