Jackson Holliday 2023

[Mr-splash]

6 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I’m all for us giving him the deal Soto turned down or JRod signed. Or if he would take a shorter 8-10 year deal, I’m good with that. 

I’m just realistic enough to know that you don’t chose Boras as an agent to sign a team friendly deal where you don’t maximize your earning potential. Plus again, his dad was a ball player some I’m sure he has a very good handle on the business of the game.

Also, I would like to sign him and Adley is possible. It sends a bad message in the clubhouse if you bypass a guy like him who is already deserving to extend a guy who hasn’t even done anything with the big club yet. 

It's a long way away, but as it pertains to Gunnar and Jackson, it's hard to imagine them wanting to take a hometown team discount to play in Baltimore. These are southern country boys and have hired Boras. Does that sound like the kind of guy who take a team friendly deal in Balitimore city?

[Gurgi]

I am going to try to not worry about the contract or money stuff.  The Orioles can only make offers and do the best.  Maybe we get a guy who likes Baltimore and stays for a long time or maybe we get a deal like the Nats got and the kid wants to be a free agent and it forces us into a trade.  Them the ropes.  

Now lets see in five years after he has won an MVP and has been a three time allstar what I feel like at trade deadline day when he had refused a mega deal.   I might be frustrated then.  Oh well let the kid shine bright and hope for the best.

[Mr-splash]

Holliday over Druw Jones is looking really good right now. Most analysts and fans had Jones as the superior prospect. Why? 

 

Jones is the more fast twitchy athlete with a better arm. But Holliday is still an above average athlete. Heres the thing. They are ballplayers, not boxers. Who cares who has more raw athleticism? Holliday has enough. Are they getting in the ring? No they're on a baseball diamond.

 

When I look at a ballplayer the most important thing is can you play ball? Holliday has a natural feel for the game. Hes a ballplayer.

 

Also, the fact that he is/was less physically developed than other kids his age means there is more upside for power. Not saying hes going to be a 40 homer guy, but I think he will grow into more power as he matures.

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, Mr-splash said:

It's a long way away, but as it pertains to Gunnar and Jackson, it's hard to imagine them wanting to take a hometown team discount to play in Baltimore. These are southern country boys and have hired Boras. Does that sound like the kind of guy who take a team friendly deal in Balitimore city?

I don’t think Baltimore is a factor at all nor their southern routes. The money and to a degree the winning will be the major factors.

I live in a surburb of Baltimore by choice and I have to tell you something, other than the weather of Southern California, there really is no nicer place in this country. If you compare income, safety, school systems, family friendly neighborhoods, accessibility to parks, plus accessibility to 2 major cities; I will put where I live up against ANY WHERE by ANY metric.

The only thing we do not have where I live is weather and geography. No really close serious beaches or mountains, and it gets cold here. Maybe the Sugarland Texas area is one of the ONLY places in the south that is even comparable to where I live in Maryland. So no, the Baltimore area is not this barren wasteland that you may have heard of. Yes it’s an urban area that has the problems of just about any major city in America. But again, you can find great places to live here that are amongst some of the best in the country.

[Billy F-Face3]

I'm very familiar with the Oklahoma area that Jackson is from, and I can tell you from experience that there's much more to do in the Baltimore area for a young man like Jackson Holliday to enjoy. And that's if you want a variety of nature, or a more uptempo night life. Baltimore sits smack dab in the middle between the Appalachian Mountain and and beaches of the eastern shore. And if he likes boating and fishing, there's plenty of that to go around up and down the Chesapeake Bay. In Oklahoma, they have Lake Thunderbird, and Lake Hefner. But Lake Hefner is drinking water so there are a lot of restrictions. There's alot more options in the greater Baltimore area.

I've never been to Alabama or Georgia so I couldn't speak on that with regards to Gunnar.

[Mr-splash]

42 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I don’t think Baltimore is a factor at all nor their southern routes. The money and to a degree the winning will be the major factors.

I live in a surburb of Baltimore by choice and I have to tell you something, other than the weather of Southern California, there really is no nicer place in this country. If you compare income, safety, school systems, family friendly neighborhoods, accessibility to parks, plus accessibility to 2 major cities; I will put where I live up against ANY WHERE by ANY metric.

The only thing we do not have where I live is weather and geography. No really close serious beaches or mountains, and it gets cold here. Maybe the Sugarland Texas area is one of the ONLY places in the south that is even comparable to where I live in Maryland. So no, the Baltimore area is not this barren wasteland that you may have heard of. Yes it’s an urban area that has the problems of just about any major city in America. But again, you can find great places to live here that are amongst some of the best in the country.

I live in Baltimore County about a mile from the city line.

[SemperFi]

8 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

First let me say, if you were offended by my choice of wording I sincerely apologize. I grew up that way, so I’m not offended to describe the reality of what it is. But if we are being objective and realistic, there was almost certainly a difference in terms of access between the life experiences of Jackson Holliday and Wander Franco.

As far as my response to your second paragraph, all of that could be true, it’s just not very likely. He’s on the fast track to the Bigs, he doesn’t need to take a deal to get him there any quicker. His talent is going to do that. He also may not be as financial incentivized as some, given that he grew up the son of a multimillionaire professional baseball player. He is not in desperate need for cash nor is he going to be enamored with the fortune and fame given who his father was and his exposure to that lifestyle from a young age.

Finally, I think you may be underestimating the power of the Boras Corp. Players don’t chose them normally and then not trust them and say “hey you work for me”. Boras doesn’t need Jackson Holliday. I believe that his corporation has made something like a billion dollars. I don’t see players telling him what to do with that type of power dynamic. If anything they hired him because they believe in his ability to get them the best deal(s) possible.

And there is pressure on a Boras client to take the most lucrative deal, that's part of signing with Boras.  He doesn't sign #1 picks by accepting home team discounts.  I would assume some pressure from MLPA too, couple three decades ago you were a pariah if you accepted a discount. 

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, Mr-splash said:

Holliday over Druw Jones is looking really good right now. Most analysts and fans had Jones as the superior prospect. Why? 

 

Jones is the more fast twitchy athlete with a better arm. But Holliday is still an above average athlete. Heres the thing. They are ballplayers, not boxers. Who cares who has more raw athleticism? Holliday has enough. Are they getting in the ring? No they're on a baseball diamond.

 

When I look at a ballplayer the most important thing is can you play ball? Holliday has a natural feel for the game. Hes a ballplayer.

 

Also, the fact that he is/was less physically developed than other kids his age means there is more upside for power. Not saying hes going to be a 40 homer guy, but I think he will grow into more power as he matures.

Throughout much of the process, Jones was viewed as the top prospect in the draft. A high level CFer with very good offensive upside. There were some questions about the bat as I recall but he was viewed as the best prospect. It was also thought that he had a high floor because of his defense.

Elijah Green was the other guy who some felt had a higher ceiling but a far lower floor because of the swing and miss in his game, which has been an issue in his early career, as he has struck out in half of his at bats.

Holliday started to emerge as someone who was worthy of the first pick as the process went along. 
 

As we got close to the draft, I was personally hoping for Druw but felt Holliday and Green (if you felt you could fix his swing) were the only other candidates worthy of the pick.

What put Holliday over Jones, for Elias, was that Holliday could play SS at a high level defensively. Once I saw Elias saying that, I was good with the pick and I think most were too.

Most did want Jones. He was ranked #1 by almost everyone, had the family pedigree and tons of talent but I think once we heard from Elias, everyone was good with it.

The other aspect to this was I didn’t want to see them “save money” and spend it later. Not interested in that at all. I wanted the top talent, as that is basically your only advantage to tanking.

Leading up to the draft, it was obvious Jones would cost a lot of the slot bonus money for that pick. It was also obvious that Holliday would save you a little money but would still cost a lot.  It goes back to the process for me. When you are losing on purpose, you need to cash that chip in for high level talent, not save money to spend on some 3rd round pick that is a lesser player.  You will still be able to get those overslot guys either way, so it just not needed.

So, I was happy about that too. I didn’t want anything to do with Termarr Johnson or Berry or any of the other rumored #1 guys that would sign for a lot.

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Mr-splash]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Throughout much of the process, Jones was viewed as the top prospect in the draft. A high level CFer with very good offensive upside. There were some questions about the bat as I recall but he was viewed as the best prospect. It was also thought that he had a high floor because of his defense.

Elijah Green was the other guy who some felt had a higher ceiling but a far lower floor because of the swing and miss in his game, which has been an issue in his early career, as he has struck out in half of his at bats.

Holliday started to emerge as someone who was worthy of the first pick as the process went along. 
 

As we got close to the draft, I was personally hoping for Druw but felt Holliday and Green (if you felt you could fix his swing) were the only other candidates worthy of the pick.

What put Holliday over Jones, for Elias, was that Holliday could play SS at a high level defensively. Once I saw Elias saying that, I was good with the pick and I think most were too.

Most did want Jones. He was ranked #1 by almost everyone, had the family pedigree and tons of talent but I think once we heard from Elias, everyone was good with it.

The other aspect to this was I didn’t want to see them “save money” and spend it later. No interested in that at all. I wanted the top talent, as that is basically your only advantage to tanking.

Leading up to the draft, it was obvious Jones would cost a lot of the slot bonus money for that pick. It was also obvious that Holliday would save you a little money but would still cost a lot.

So, I was happy about that too. I didn’t want anything to do with Termarr Johnson or Berry or any of the other rumored #1 guys that would sign for a lot less just to spend later.

 

The hit tool is the most important tool. Athleticism is secondary. A cannon arm never hit .300 and never OBP .400

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

The hit tool is the most important tool. Athleticism is secondary. A cannon arm never hit .300 and never OBP .400

Well, I don’t really agree with that.

Jacob Berry had arguably the best hit tool in the draft…but he was a college first base prospect with a limited ceiling because of positional value.

Where you play, how well you play it, your size and what your size can grow into (ie high school kids have more to Grow where as college kids are usually about where they will be), athleticism and how you project overall are all extremely important.

Austin Martin was thought of as having an elite hit tool because of his bat control and bat to ball skills..we see how well that’s working out.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Mr-splash]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, I don’t really agree with that.

Jacob Berry had arguably the best hit tool in the draft…but he was a college first base prospect with a limited ceiling because of positional value.

Where you play, how well you play it, your size and what your size can grow into (ie high school kids have more to Grow where as college kids are usually about where they will be), athleticism and how you project overall are all extremely important.

Austin Martin was thought of as having an elite hit tool because of his bat control and bat to ball skills..we see how well that’s working out.

Hitting is the most important skill for a position player. 

[SemperFi]

27 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I'm very familiar with the Oklahoma area that Jackson is from, and I can tell you from experience that there's much more to do in the Baltimore area for a young man like Jackson Holliday to enjoy. And that's if you want a variety of nature, or a more uptempo night life. Baltimore sits smack dab in the middle between the Appalachian Mountain and and beaches of the eastern shore. And if he likes boating and fishing, there's plenty of that to go around up and down the Chesapeake Bay. In Oklahoma, they have Lake Thunderbird, and Lake Hefner. But Lake Hefner is drinking water so there are a lot of restrictions. There's alot more options in the greater Baltimore area.

I've never been to Alabama or Georgia so I couldn't speak on that with regards to Gunnar.

I think a big point to consider here is that Elias is creating a desirable destination point.  I think it's much less about location than it is a team that is a consistent contender and committed to winning. 

Would any of you in your prime, trusted the Orioles with your second contract?  This was a franchise where high draft picks went to die, now we are actually developing players and that success doesn't go unnoticed. 

I would have reservations on two points-is ownership/management stable enough to provide consistent direction (PA, JA drama-potential sale) and are they willing to expand payroll to competitive levels, why would I sign that second contract if I'm not going have other assets around me. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

Hitting is the most important skill for a position player. 

It is.

It just isn't that easy to project.

SG is saying that Berry had arguably the best hit tool in the draft, I thought it was Termarr Johnson.  Spencer Torkelson went 1-1 as a RH 1B on the strength of his hit tool and he's put up a 77 OPS+ for his ML career. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

It is.

It just isn't that easy to project.

SG is saying that Berry had arguably the best hit tool in the draft, I thought it was Termarr Johnson.  Spencer Torkelson went 1-1 as a RH 1B on the strength of his hit tool and he's put up a 77 OPS+ for his ML career. 

Johnson was definitely up there too.  May have even been higher..where as Berry was maybe more projectable as a college player.

[Orioles Jim]

16 hours ago, btdart20 said:

I have 14 tickets for 6/16.  I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried!

Ha! Same!

Well, actually, I'm just planning on going to the game on 6/18/23 with my Dad for Father's Day, so if he gets promoted, we'll just go to Bowie instead.  But I've never been to Aberdeen, so part of me is hoping he'll still be there!