2023 Ongoing Lineup Thread

[banks703]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He’s a few innings short of qualifying because of getting hit on the foot by a line drive in his first start.   Otherwise, he’d be tied for 12th in ERA in the AL.  I’d say that’s better than a 3rd/4th starter.   Wells too, he’s 8th in ERA right now.  

On this team he’s probably been their second best pitcher. I mentioned that. 
 

If he continues to pitch like tonight he could overtake Wells as their best starter this year. Time will tell. They’re both pitching like we all hoped they would this year. 
 

I don’t think either of them are ahead of a healthy John Means right now though (I know I know. I’m assuming John Means returns to form) and I think Wells has been a tick better than Kyle so far this year. So, should the O’s be fortunate to get back the John Means before the injury, that’d place Kyle as the third best starter in their rotation and squarely in the rotation beyond this year. Given that a lot of us hope that they will add an upgrade to the rotation either by trade or free agent acquisition, a more true number 1 or number 2 starter would push Kyle back a slot as their fourth best starter.
 

No doubt he’s been really good this year but with other better starters in the rotation I think it’s fair to declare him a middle of the rotation guy.

 

I have to ask if I offended you somewhere. Recently I’ve noticed that you seem to target my posts. If I have offended you somehow I’m sure it was unintentional. 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by banks703

[banks703]

9 minutes ago, Sydnor said:

Santander has 1 defensive run saved in RF, -2 outs above average, and a positive UZR and UZR/150. The ball he caught in the 9th last night had an expected batting average of .660. He more or less an average outfielder who is perfectly competent in RF because he gets above average jumps. Don’t act like he’s Mark Trumbo out there.

I don’t think that he’s Mark Trumbo. He was a GG finalist a few years back and has made some really great plays out there this year. I think he’s perfectly adequate as an outfielder though his range and angles do seem to have fallen a little bit this year. He’s certainly not going to hurt them by playing in RF. I think he’s better suited for 1B with the current roster construction.  

[Sydnor]

12 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I don’t think that he’s Mark Trumbo. He was a GG finalist a few years back and has made some really great plays out there this year. I think he’s perfectly adequate as an outfielder though his range and angles do seem to have fallen a little bit this year. He’s certainly not going to hurt them by playing in RF. I think he’s better suited for 1B with the current roster construction.  

I’m fine with Santander playing first. I’m fine with him playing RF. I think the team is going to rotate the DH spot, so he’s going to in the field. Some posters act like he’s a complete liability in the field and he’s not. Thank you for clarifying that you were not saying that.

That being said, his routes have actually improved this year.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/anthony-santander-623993?stats=statcast-r-fielding-mlb

[banks703]

1 minute ago, Sydnor said:

I’m fine with Santander playing first. I’m fine with him playing RF. I think the team is going to rotate the DH spot, so he’s going to in the field. Some posters act like he’s a complete liability in the field and he’s not. Thank you for clarifying that you were not saying that.

That being said, his routes have actually improved this year.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/anthony-santander-623993?stats=statcast-r-fielding-mlb

Good data. I hadn’t looked at his stat cast in a while. When I looked at it last it showed that they were down a tick. It’s only a good thing if he CAN play well out there. The versatility and position flexibility that they have right now is the best that I can ever remember the O’s having. 

[LA2]

6 hours ago, e16bball said:

Wasn’t sure exactly where to post this, other than the game thread, but…

The Orioles saw 231 pitches tonight, which appears to be the most pitches they’ve ever seen in a 9-inning game in franchise history. 

Cool stat! Thanks

[Bahama O's Fan]

Anyone ever find out why Hicks was scratched?

[Billy F-Face3]

38 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Anyone ever find out why Hicks was scratched?

@banks703 said it was something to do with his achilles?

[Moose Milligan]

I'm really not interested in the Twins series if Adley, Gunnar, Cowser and Westburg aren't in the lineup each day.  

Okay, that's a lie, I'm interested no matter what.  But the Twins have arguably the best pitching in the game (leading the majors in ERA, WHIP and opponents batting average) and and we need guys that can work a count.  Cowser and Westburg look like they know what they're doing at the plate.  

[Matt Bennett]

I know lineup order changes ultimately do very little and it really just comes down to "put your good hitters at the top". But I think Adley should be the one leading off. Gets on base the most. Sees the most pitches. Sneaky fast. Probably less power than Gunnar, Hays, Santander, Mullins, O'Hearn. Sounds like a leadoff hitter. I'm fairly surprised Mullins has seemingly lost his leadoff spot following his injury + short slump upon returning. He held that spot down for years. Henderson is actually pretty aggressive. 5 walks since June 1. Hasn't mattered since he's hit .300+ in that span but I don't expect him to hit that the rest of the year. I think all those walks at the beginning of the year were kind of just a product of him swinging and missing so often + taking too much. 

We really have an embarrassment of riches and this is not a big deal. It's a stacked lineup.

1. Adley (C) (Switch)

2. Mullins (CF) (Left)

3. Santander (DH) (Switch)

4. Hays (RF) (Right)

5. O'Hearn (1B) (Left)

6. Henderson (SS) (Left)

7. Westburg (2B) (Right)

8. Cowser (LF) (Left)

9. Urias (3B) (Right)

Is Ramon Urias the best #9 hitter in the league? I'd assume the Braves #9 hitter is the best #9 hitter in all of baseball. 

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, banks703 said:

I have to ask if I offended you somewhere. Recently I’ve noticed that you seem to target my posts. If I have offended you somehow I’m sure it was unintentional. 

 

No, you have not offended me at all.   

I do get irritatable (not personally, but in principle) when people relegate our starters to a lower rung than reality reflects.  This didn’t start in 2023, or with you.   

There are only 41 pitchers in the AL who’ve thrown 80+ innings — less than three on a team.  Of those, Wells ranks 11th in ERA, Bradish ranks 15th.   How many teams have two guys better than that?   I don’t see any way to relegate these guys to no. 3/4 status.   They’d be at least the second best starter on the vast majority of teams in the league right now.  

Like I said, this isn’t a recent phenomenon and you’re far from the only poster who has ever downplayed an Orioles starter. People were always assigning Tillman, Chen and Miguel Gonzalez to lower rungs than the facts warranted, and I used to get uppity about it then, too.



 

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

No, you have not offended me at all.   

I do get irritatable (not personally, but in principle) when people relegate our starters to a lower rung than reality reflects.  This didn’t start in 2023, or with you.   

There are only 41 pitchers in the AL who’ve thrown 80+ innings — less than three on a team.  Of those, Wells ranks 11th in ERA, Bradish ranks 15th.   How many teams have two guys better than that?   I don’t see any way to relegate these guys to no. 3/4 status.   They’d be at least the second best starter on the vast majority of teams in the league right now.  

Like I said, this isn’t a recent phenomenon and you’re far from the only poster who has ever downplayed an Orioles starter. People were always assigning Tillman, Chen and Miguel Gonzalez to lower rungs than the facts warranted, and I used to get uppity about it then, too.



 

These semantic debates just drive everyone nuts. If TOR means Pedro Martinez or Randy Johnson level, clear perennial #1, then the O's haven't had an ace since peak Bedard, and even he was short lived. If it means solidly above league average, then Bradish and Chen could be considered #2 starters. If MOR means "middle of rotation on a playoff caliber team" then that is also an accurate description. If MOR means "at or below league average," then that is massively unfair and dismissive.

[jamalshw]

58 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

I know lineup order changes ultimately do very little and it really just comes down to "put your good hitters at the top". But I think Adley should be the one leading off. Gets on base the most. Sees the most pitches. Sneaky fast. Probably less power than Gunnar, Hays, Santander, Mullins, O'Hearn. Sounds like a leadoff hitter. I'm fairly surprised Mullins has seemingly lost his leadoff spot following his injury + short slump upon returning. He held that spot down for years. Henderson is actually pretty aggressive. 5 walks since June 1. Hasn't mattered since he's hit .300+ in that span but I don't expect him to hit that the rest of the year. I think all those walks at the beginning of the year were kind of just a product of him swinging and missing so often + taking too much. 

We really have an embarrassment of riches and this is not a big deal. It's a stacked lineup.

1. Adley (C) (Switch)

2. Mullins (CF) (Left)

3. Santander (DH) (Switch)

4. Hays (RF) (Right)

5. O'Hearn (1B) (Left)

6. Henderson (SS) (Left)

7. Westburg (2B) (Right)

8. Cowser (LF) (Left)

9. Urias (3B) (Right)

Is Ramon Urias the best #9 hitter in the league? I'd assume the Braves #9 hitter is the best #9 hitter in all of baseball. 

I like a bit more speed at the top. I get Adley is fast for a catcher, but I like him in the #2 spot. He normally takes the first pitch anyway, which gives the lead off guy some time to time the pitcher if he's going to run. He's also prone to longer ABs which helps in that regard. If the lead-off guy gets on, you have someone that gets on base at a .378 clip who can help move him along. If he doesn't, you have a second chance to get someone one with just one out. 

Now that Mullins seems to be coming around, I'd like him back in the lead off spot. Even after his slump, he has a .343 OBP which is solid, plus the speed element that can cause trouble for the pitcher and split his attention. 

While Henderson is hitting, I'd love to see him in the #3 hole and Santander 4th. That gives you 4 straight lefties against a RHP and at least gives you a L/R/L/R split against a LHP. Hays 5th. O'Hearn 6th...and then I agree with your 7-9. 

Then you have a bench of Mateo, McCann, Frazier and Hicks. Mateo is a great bench piece as a valuable pinch runner (particularly in extra innings) and defensive replacement. I'd have him work on the OF to increase his value. I'm still not sold on Hicks being more than a flash in the pan (albeit a great one). If Mateo can prove to be a back up in CF (along with Hays) that allows the Orioles to move on from Hicks when/if he reverts completely to his Yankee form because you will have 4 OF in Hays/Mullins/Cowser/Santander in the everyday lineup and Frazier and Mateo to back up. If Hicks continues to be productive, Frazier is probably the most vulnerable guy.

[banks703]

5 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

@banks703 said it was something to do with his achilles?

That's what Hyde reported in the post-game. He said something about Achilles soreness. 

 

 

[dtk9119]

Still no Hays (yet he's starting the AS game?) and Hicks tonight. And Mullins is clean up? Why not just leave O'Hearn there?

[Aristotelian]

Mateo in vs a RHP, Frazier out, is interesting.