Grayson Rodriguez 2023

[Bemorewins]

34 minutes ago, G54377 said:

I'm not sure what to make of GR. Hopefully he isn't Jake Arrieta 2.0 and figures it out with someone else.

He reminds me much more of Gausman than anything Arrieta.

[Roy Firestone]

Has anyone considered poor pitch calling? I mean, I love Adley, he's going to be a great player...but I've talked to some insiders who think his pitch calling, particularly with G/Rod has been less than stellar ...not that explains everything...but the grand slam he gave up to Seegar was on an awful secondary pitch called by Adley.Of course Grayson has the right to shake off a pitch call...

 

 

 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Roy Firestone said:

Has anyone considered poor pitch calling? I mean, I love Adley, he's going to be a great player...but I've talked to some insiders who think his pitch calling, particularly with G/Rod has been less than stellar ...not that explains everything...but the grand slam he gave up to Seegar was on an awful secondary pitch called by Adley.Of course Grayson has the right to shake off a pitch call...

 

 

 

Well, even GRod said he threw too many cutters..Adley was catching him.

Now, was that the direction Adley was given or did he do that on his own?

[EddeeEddee]

None of the Houston Astros' last four first round pitching prospects (Mark Appel, Brady Aiken, Forrest Whitley and JB Bukauskas) have made it at the MLB level -- at least so far -- and yet the Astros have made it to the World Series four times in the past six seasons.  How?  By not staking all their hopes on this or that highly touted, first round pitcher.  

The point is putting so much emphasis on a single young pitcher, no matter how gifted, is maddening.  The Orioles need to acquire more pitching by any all means: draft, international signings, trades, free agent signings -- or we'll continue to be the same old Orioles of the past 20 years.  Good hitting team, mediocre on the mound.  

Grayson could develop into one of the best pitchers in MLB.  But did it make sense to hope it would be right away?  Should there be so much emphasis on one talented arm topping the rotation his first year on the team?  There should be a few other Oriole pitchers in the mix we should be having similar conversations about, but right now there are not.  We'll have more opportunities to get fortunate with the development of another John Means if the team focuses more on acquiring pitchers at every level -- draft up thru free agency.

Back to the Astros: some of their first rounders, mainly Whitley and Bukauskas, could still make it because they are young; but the point remains just because a young player is highly touted with extraordinary gifts, he may need extra time to develop, or he may never make it.  This doesn't just happen to the Orioles, it happens everywhere.  I think the difference is the Orioles never seem to prioritize getting ample promising arms -- or more than one ok free agent starter -- to make up the difference for those who don't make it or need more time to develop.

 

[webbrick2010]

Wouldn't be a problem is we signed Wacha and Bassitt instead of Gibson and Irvin

We decide to once againg be cheap, so now we have to carefully trade away our stockpile of positional talent, hoping that we don't give away a future all star for another pitcher(s) who doesn't pan out

[Orioles5258]

22 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Wouldn't be a problem is we signed Wacha and Bassitt instead of Gibson and Irvin

We decide to once againg be cheap, so now we have to carefully trade away our stockpile of positional talent, hoping that we don't give away a future all star for another pitcher(s) who doesn't pan out

we could have gone expensive with deGrom at $37 million and Rodon at $27 million and we would be in the same boat looking to not give away a future all star for another pitcher who doesn't pan out 

didn't your mom tell you that money isnt always the answer to lifes problems? 

[wildcard]

As I look at GRod's Baseball Savant numbers for his 10 games this season it shows that his Change up had a .226 BA against and his Slider was .227 BA against.    It was his 4 seam fastball that got hit at .395 BA.   He has two other pitches but let forget them for now because a major league starter can win with 3 pitches.

As has been discussed here its the command of his fastball that he needs to improve.   His two best off speed pitches were fine.  

GRod was injured last year and never really had a chance to get confident in his stuff after the injury in AAA games.   He pitched in 5 spring training games to a 7.04 ERA and  1.57 WHIP.   No confidence builder there.  He had one game in Norfolk with a 4.50 ERA  and a WHIP of 2.00.

He pitched in 10 games for the O's and had trouble.   Command of the fastball was not there constantly.

Now he has had 5 games in Norfolk 4 of which he went 6 innings.   His ERA is 2.22 and his WHIP is 1.06 in June.  I have to think he has been working on his fastball command.  And building confidence.   He had 5 walks in his first game back at Norfolk and averaged 2 walks a game in the next 4 games.   If I look at the ERA, WHIP and walks he look dominating in June at AAA.

I can't say that will carry over to the majors.   But I think its likely that he has a whole lot more confidence in his stuff now then what he had when he was called up in April.

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by wildcard

[Big Mac]

2 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

Wouldn't be a problem is we signed Wacha and Bassitt instead of Gibson and Irvin

We decide to once againg be cheap, so now we have to carefully trade away our stockpile of positional talent, hoping that we don't give away a future all star for another pitcher(s) who doesn't pan out

Bassitt hasn't been any better than Gibson.  I'd rather have Gibson at 1/10 than Bassitt at 3/63.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

As I look at GRod's Baseball Savant numbers for his 10 games this season it shows that his Change up had a .226 BA against and his Slider was .227 BA against.    It was his 4 seam fastball that got hit at .395 BA.   He has two other pitches but let forget them for now because a major league starter can win with 3 pitches.

As has been discussed here it’s the command of his fastball that he needs to improve.   His two best off speed pitches were fine.  

Here’s the reason I consider these numbers to be overly simplistic and possibly misleading.  (Not that I am accusing you of potentially misleading anyone.)

Those numbers state what happens when the batter swings and either strikes out or puts the ball in play.  But what about counts where neither of those things happen?

Here’s what i saw WAY too much from Grayson.  He’d be ahead 0-2 or 1-2 and would attempt to execute what Jim Palmer would call a “strike to ball” slider.  But instead, he’d throw a non-competitive pitch that was a ball coming out of his hand.  A complete waste of a pitch.   Did a batter put it in play or strike out on that pitch?  No.  He watched it sail a foot outside the strike zone, until Grayson had to come in with a fastball.

I don’t lump the change-up and the slider together   Grayson’s change-up is excellent, and he throws that strike-to-ball plenty.  But the slider is a different story, and it’s an important pitch for Grayson to execute well.  And I just saw too many times where he didn’t.  I saw him execute that pitch way better in 2021 and early 2022.

Another pitch he needs to execute well is the fastball 3-6 inches above the strike zone   Nobody can hit that when he throws it, and it’s tough to lay off.   But too often, when he tries it the pitch is head-high and not tempting.

In my opinion, if he improves execution of those two pitches (nether one of which ends in the strike zone), he’ll dominate games and keep his pitch counts much lower than we’ve seen this year.  And I know he’s been capable of that in the past.

[bpilktree]

9 hours ago, EddeeEddee said:

None of the Houston Astros' last four first round pitching prospects (Mark Appel, Brady Aiken, Forrest Whitley and JB Bukauskas) have made it at the MLB level -- at least so far -- and yet the Astros have made it to the World Series four times in the past six seasons.  How?  By not staking all their hopes on this or that highly touted, first round pitcher.  

The point is putting so much emphasis on a single young pitcher, no matter how gifted, is maddening.  The Orioles need to acquire more pitching by any all means: draft, international signings, trades, free agent signings -- or we'll continue to be the same old Orioles of the past 20 years.  Good hitting team, mediocre on the mound.  

Grayson could develop into one of the best pitchers in MLB.  But did it make sense to hope it would be right away?  Should there be so much emphasis on one talented arm topping the rotation his first year on the team?  There should be a few other Oriole pitchers in the mix we should be having similar conversations about, but right now there are not.  We'll have more opportunities to get fortunate with the development of another John Means if the team focuses more on acquiring pitchers at every level -- draft up thru free agency.

Back to the Astros: some of their first rounders, mainly Whitley and Bukauskas, could still make it because they are young; but the point remains just because a young player is highly touted with extraordinary gifts, he may need extra time to develop, or he may never make it.  This doesn't just happen to the Orioles, it happens everywhere.  I think the difference is the Orioles never seem to prioritize getting ample promising arms -- or more than one ok free agent starter -- to make up the difference for those who don't make it or need more time to develop.

 

The Astros pitching came mostly from young international signing guys and most of them were not the top prospects but guys they seemed to like more then other teams.  I think Elias is trying to do the same thing here but it is still very early in that part because most those guys have connections a year or two in advance before they even sign at 16-17.  It will be interesting to see in a year or two if we start seeing some of those type of guys come to the states and start working their way up our minor leagues.  

[wildcard]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

Here’s the reason I consider these numbers to be overly simplistic and possibly misleading.  (Not that I am accusing you of potentially misleading anyone.)

Those numbers state what happens when the batter swings and either strikes out or puts the ball in play.  But what about counts where neither of those things happen?

Here’s what i saw WAY too much from Grayson.  He’d be ahead 0-2 or 1-2 and would attempt to execute what Jim Palmer would call a “strike to ball” slider.  But instead, he’d throw a non-competitive pitch that was a ball coming out of his hand.  A complete waste of a pitch.   Did a batter put it in play or strike out on that pitch?  No.  He watched it sail a foot outside the strike zone, until Grayson had to come in with a fastball.

I don’t lump the change-up and the slider together   Grayson’s change-up is excellent, and he throws that strike-to-ball plenty.  But the slider is a different story, and it’s an important pitch for Grayson to execute well.  And I just saw too many times where he didn’t.  I saw him execute that pitch way better in 2021 and early 2022.

Another pitch he needs to execute well is the fastball 3-6 inches above the strike zone   Nobody can hit that when he throws it, and it’s tough to lay off.   But too often, when he tries it the pitch is head-high and not tempting.

In my opinion, if he improves execution of those two pitches (nether one of which ends in the strike zone), he’ll dominate games and keep his pitch counts much lower than we’ve seen this year.  And I know he’s been capable of that in the past.

During June at AAA GRod is averaging 6 innings and 90+ pitches per game.   That is 15+ pitches per inning.  And that is pretty good.  So I think he is doing what he needs to with his command or he wouldn't be putting up those numbers.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

During June at AAA GRod is averaging 6 innings and 90+ pitches per game.   That is 15+ pitches per inning.  And that is pretty good.  So I think he is doing what he needs to with his command or he wouldn't be putting up those numbers.

You aren’t necessarily talking about command here, more about control.

[webbrick2010]

16 hours ago, Orioles5258 said:

we could have gone expensive with deGrom at $37 million and Rodon at $27 million and we would be in the same boat looking to not give away a future all star for another pitcher who doesn't pan out 

didn't your mom tell you that money isnt always the answer to lifes problems? 

True, drafting and trading for pitching is a crapshoot. Need to figure out how a few organizations are better than most at developing starting pitching (Tampa, Miami .....) The approach of Elias to almost exclusively draft positional players was interesting and we are about to see how it plays out as he trades for pitching

[wildcard]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You aren’t necessarily talking about command here, more about control.

Seems like he is  commanding the ball to keep it out of the middle of the plate  or he would not be able to keep his pitches per inning to 15+.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Seems like he is  commanding the ball to keep it out of the middle of the plate  or he would not be able to keep his pitches per inning to 15+.

Well, that’s not some great number. It’s a good number but nothing overly ssocial.

That said, you still aren’t talking about command. He may be getting away with things better but that doesn’t mean the command is where it needs to be.