Mychal Givens 2023

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

It's kind of funny, but he can't torque his body as much as he used to and it's primarily because he's way fatter than he used to be.  His velo is way down from where it was his previous stint as well.

I know he had an "easy" inning the other night, but I actually am not encouraged by what I've seen, and that includes his "easy" inning.

As a fellow “weight challenged” person I empathize with his knee pain.

He still has nasty movement and a slider. He’s an upgrade over Khreibel and Gilaspie. He’ll be alright. 

[Pickles]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

As a fellow “weight challenged” person I empathize with his knee pain.

He still has nasty movement and a slider. He’s an upgrade over Khreibel and Gilaspie. He’ll be alright. 

Hey, I'll be rooting for the guy, and I'll always be a fan of his.

But 90 out of the pen isn't impressing me right now.

[Malike]

He's basically a junk-baller. I want him to succeed but he looks like he's got nothing left.

[RZNJ]

13 minutes ago, Malike said:

He's basically a junk-baller. I want him to succeed but he looks like he's got nothing left.

If you look at video of Givens from last year you’ll see a lot more upper body rotation and bended  knee on his plant leg.  When I saw him in his first appearance against Toronto I was taken back on how upright he was throughout his delivery.   I thought maybe it was making his changeup and slider play up. I have to think he’s changed his mechanics to protect his knee.

Edited May 25, 2023 by RZNJ

[Malike]

Just now, RZNJ said:

If you look at video of Givens from last year you’ll see a lot more upper body rotation and blended knee.  When I saw him in his first appearance against Toronto I was taken back on how upright he was throughout his delivery.   I thought maybe it was making his changeup and slider play up. I have to think he’s changed his mechanics to protect his knee.

His wind-up has definitely changed. Velo is down and it seems movement on his pitches is down as well. Checks out that it's likely mechanical stuff.

[Aristotelian]

Just bumping this. I also noticed the delivery change. Not sure if it something the O's are trying with him or if he physically can't do his old delivery, but he looks like he can hardly move his old man body, and the results match the eye test. He did have a clean inning against the bottom of the Yankees lineup and hit 92 that game.  Weight up, velocity down, how long of a leash does Givens have? The additional problem with Givens is that he gives us only one spot available for shuttling guys with options, and we need every arm we can get.

[Chaka Garcia]

Like many, I didn’t realized his weight ballooned up to 250 lbs(on a 6ft frame). Makes the signing a-little puzzling. Did they not see his weight gain as a red flag  along with the velocity decline.

[Otter]

2 minutes ago, Chaka Garcia said:

Like many, I didn’t realized his weight ballooned up to 250 lbs(on a 6ft frame). Makes the signing a-little puzzling. Did they not see his weight gain as a red flag  along with the velocity decline.

I was wondering the same thing.  Elias really seems to do his homework on signings, it seems strange that he'd sign Givens to a guaranteed deal with the fat gain and velocity loss.  And I agree with the other posters, the difference in his mechanics is striking.

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, Chaka Garcia said:

Like many, I didn’t realized his weight ballooned up to 250 lbs(on a 6ft frame). Makes the signing a-little puzzling. Did they not see his weight gain as a red flag  along with the velocity decline.

Some pitchers do just fine as big guys. I have no problem with the signing. The question is how long of a leash does he get and can we cut bait if he isn't performing. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Otter said:

I was wondering the same thing.  Elias really seems to do his homework on signings, it seems strange that he'd sign Givens to a guaranteed deal with the fat gain and velocity loss.  And I agree with the other posters, the difference in his mechanics is striking.

Velocity loss?

He was 93-94 last season.

https://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=571710&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=05/28/2023&s_type=2

How is Elias supposed to know he's going to drop 2 MPH?

[Otter]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Some pitchers do just fine as big guys. I have no problem with the signing. The question is how long of a leash does he get and can we cut bait if he isn't performing. 

That's true.  And I wouldn't be worried about Givens if his mechanics and velocity were the same as before.  But that's not the case; he looks stiff and his stuff looks weak.  That being said, I'd still like to give him a few more weeks to see if he's just shaking off the rust and will improve.

[Otter]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Velocity loss?

He was 93-94 last season.

https://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=571710&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=05/28/2023&s_type=2

How is Elias supposed to know he's going to drop 2 MPH?

That's true, but what about noticing the knee problem or significant weight gain during the physical?  I know that wouldn't directly correlate to velocity loss, but still something to consider when offering a guaranteed contract.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Otter said:

That's true, but what about noticing the knee problem or significant weight gain during the physical?  I know that wouldn't directly correlate to velocity loss, but still something to consider when offering a guaranteed contract.

I was only questioning the velocity issue.

My guess is they wanted to replace Tate with a "veteran presence" in the bullpen and Givens was the best available option.

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, Otter said:

That's true, but what about noticing the knee problem or significant weight gain during the physical?  I know that wouldn't directly correlate to velocity loss, but still something to consider when offering a guaranteed contract.

He developed the knee problem in spring training, after the signing.

[Just Regular]

Stuff+ sees the raw pitch attributes okay, and the Location these first few innings terrible, which I guess fits with knocking off rust possibility.     He'll get some more innings to improve, but Elias already showed a quick hook with Irvin.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=36&season=2023&month=0&season1=2023&ind=0&team=2&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2023-01-01&enddate=2023-12-31&sort=12,d

The Baumann fastball is trending up.    His readout basically 90th percentile for all MLB pitchers YTD.