Cole Irvin 2023

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, AdleysPecks said:

I love this moronic logic. Because Elias drafted a ton of infielders and they developed well, we should just give them away at below market value. Hernaiz is nearly 3 years younger than the league. That screams good things, elite. You don’t give a guy like that away for a poor man’s Tommy Hunter. 

Everyone should know this already but Hernaiz is playing in the PCL.  It's a notorious hitters league. Take his offensive numbers with a grain of salt.

https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/pcl-to-mlb-hitter-adjustment/

[AdleysPecks]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Everyone should know this already but Hernaiz is playing in the PCL.  It's a notorious hitters league. Take his offensive numbers with a grain of salt.

https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/pcl-to-mlb-hitter-adjustment/

Thanks for posting. Age diff still huge. 

[ChuckS]

25 minutes ago, AdleysPecks said:

I love this moronic logic. Because Elias drafted a ton of infielders and they developed well, we should just give them away at below market value. Hernaiz is nearly 3 years younger than the league. That screams good things, elite. You don’t give a guy like that away for a poor man’s Tommy Hunter. 

Did I state anywhere we should give prospects away for below market value?

A prospect like Hernaiz is what it took to land a back of rotation starter like Irvin. That WAS the market value at the time. Now Hernaiz stock has gone up since and Irvin has underperformed. But most of the folks here were happy with the trade at the time. I actually wasn’t one of them. 

First I’ve heard of anyone calling Hernaiz elite.  He’s a nice prospect though.  
 

[DirtyBird]

2 hours ago, AdleysPecks said:

Turd Irvin. Between him & Voth, I want to cry as a grown man. Awful trade. Reactionary? Yep, but right. 

You realize Irvin didn’t start tonight, right?

[ChuckS]

10 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

You realize Irvin didn’t start tonight, right?

Mr. “Moronic Logic”

[Alasdaire]

1 hour ago, AdleysPecks said:

I love this moronic logic. Because Elias drafted a ton of infielders and they developed well, we should just give them away at below market value. Hernaiz is nearly 3 years younger than the league. That screams good things, elite. You don’t give a guy like that away for a poor man’s Tommy Hunter. 

I empathize with the idea that we shouldn't be overpaying/treating prospects flippantly. But isn't Hernaiz the type of player we should be looking to move? And isn't Irvin the type of player who we should be looking to acquire?

Hernaiz is interesting enough. He's young, plays a premium position, has speed, and produces. But there's simply no path to him getting playing time in Baltimore. It's not like Norby or Ortiz who could become starters if a couple of things go right/wrong because, well, Norby/Ortiz would be blocking him.

As to Irvin, when the trade went down, A's fans weren't particularly happy. He had established himself as a reliable league-average starting pitcher at that point. That's not worth nothing, which is what they thought Hernaiz was because he was so far buried down our prospect rankings.

Irvin hasn't produced, but that's the risk you take when acquiring a player as fickle as a starting pitcher. It should honestly be a cautionary tale about assuming that whichever pitcher people are fetishizing here will live up to expectations. I would personally rather bust on homegrown pitching prospects or free agent signees than ones acquired through a trade because of the non-fungible cost that is prospects given up.

I'm against most of the trades people here propose. The idea of casually giving away multiple homegrown prospects who have a clear path to helping the big-league team for a few months of a mercenary pitcher is myopic to me. But if a player has no path here either because of the players in front of him or because the front office has inside information, then it would be a waste for both the O's and the player himself to not trade him.

[Malike]

2 hours ago, AdleysPecks said:

I love this moronic logic. Because Elias drafted a ton of infielders and they developed well, we should just give them away at below market value. Hernaiz is nearly 3 years younger than the league. That screams good things, elite. You don’t give a guy like that away for a poor man’s Tommy Hunter. 

I always thought a SS with a 40 arm and 45 field and an overall grade of 45 wasn't elite. Turns out I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Alasdaire]

There's a good chance that Elias gets hardballed by other GMs who know they can ask for more than they deserve because everyone can see that the O's have logjams. It seems many here would cave and pay whatever it would take.

But say we had held on to Hernaiz and Irvin had stayed in Oakland. Irvin would probably have been allowed to start every game for the A's and might have an ERA similar to his career numbers. Would we trade Hernaiz for Cole Irvin right now? I suspect not either because a) Hernaiz is worth more than Irvin now that he has continued to prove his worth or b) it's apparent we have four starters who are better than Irvin and he would at best be a swingman.

I think it's a mistake to manufacture a sense of urgency and deploy our assets before our needs become clear.  The players haven't yet been tried out enough to see which units need the most help, and we haven't yet gone through the ringer of postseason baseball and had our weaknesses laid bare. The fact that the trade threads on this board call for acquiring starting pitchers, relievers, and position players is a sign that it's premature to presume to know which areas of the team most warrant an investment.

Plus the days of stacked draft classes that replenish the system might be in the past as evidenced by what looks like multiple draftees falling through this cycle likely due to having fewer bonuses to give out. In which case this pool of seemingly infinite prospects who aren't good enough to be untouchable, but are good enough to garner interest, is finite.

[Billy F-Face3]

34 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

I think it's a mistake to manufacture a sense of urgency 

This. That's the type of thing thay gets you a Chris Davis and Bobby Bonilla contract that you're still paying for 30 years later. Manufacturing too much urgency leads to desperation. Desperation leads to big mistakes. 

[sportsfan8703]

He was throwing the FB last night 94/95. That’s pretty good for a lefty. Lots of rest though. Irvin gets unfairly lumped in with the lack of a FA SP signing last year. He’s been pretty solid this year. He’s a good #6 SP. However, he’s out of options next year, so the bullpen role will have to be a regular thing and not just for a fresh arm. 

[sportsfan8703]

If this dude is your #6 then you’re a darn good ball club. 

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If this dude is your #6 then you’re a darn good ball club. 

Tonight was by far the best he’s looked all year.  He was very sharp.   After the game, he mentioned that he learned some things pitching out of the bullpen that he was able to bring into this start.  Let’s hope he keeps bringing it!   Unlike our several pitchers who are bumping up against their career high innings total, irvin should have a lot of gas left in the tank down the stretch.  He’s not going to be anywhere close to his 2021-22 totals.

[Billy F-Face3]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

After the game, he mentioned that he learned some things pitching out of the bullpen that he was able to bring into this start. 

If that's the case maybe we should be sticking DL Hall in the bullpen and then starting him next season.

Cole Irvin pitched a Gem. He's been pretty good since he return from Norfolk. He will be important down the stretch trying to bridge the time gap until the playoffs begin. He can help contribute to winning the division.

[gtman55]

This is where I sometimes question Hyde/The Orioles thinking. Irvin's pitched very well recently yet Hyde still doesn't seem to trust him. And take the Mateo situation. Ortiz should be here, not Mateo. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

2 hours ago, gtman55 said:

This is where I sometimes question Hyde/The Orioles thinking. Irvin's pitched very well recently yet Hyde still doesn't seem to trust him. And take the Mateo situation. Ortiz should be here, not Mateo. 

I think Irvin was pulled for pitch count reasons last night - he hasn’t been fully stretched out. 

Hyde used Irvin out of the pen in a one run game not too long ago so maybe he’s earned more trust.