O’s: 4th most profitable team in 2022?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Sanfran327 said:

You shouldn't assume anything. All fans want their team to be competitive. Playoff teams are competitive. And this is a smart community - nobody here would ever advocate handing out bad contracts. Literally nobody liked the Chris Davis signing, even if many of us were glad a fan favorite was sticking around.

I also never said we should be more like anyone. Your argument doesn't work unless you assume things or put words into someone's mouth. 

I'd also like to know exactly how this $64.7M was calculated. From a publication like Forbes, it was probably purely revenue minus operational costs. Like others have said, RSN and revenue sharing funds are probably not part of this total, so the real figure is likely much higher. I doubt we're in - at least what I would call - the real top 5 of profitable teams all things considered.

Man I wish that was true.

Go look up the poll some time.

I'd take credit for not liking it but I dislike almost everything.

[spleen1015]

Just now, Sanfran327 said:

Because we've been paying attention since 1993 - LOL

Sure, but we have no idea how much money the team really has. How do we know that those good years weren't financed by some savings from the years prior?

[RarityFlaherty]

1 minute ago, Sanfran327 said:

Because we've been paying attention since 1993 - LOL

We used to spend a lot of money. We usually spent it poorly, but it’s not like ownership was always as cheap as they have been recently. 

[Sanfran327]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Man I wish that was true.

Go look up the poll some time.

I'd take credit for not liking it but I dislike almost everything.

I think a lot of us were torn. I was/am a big CD fan, so that part of me was definitely happy to retain him. Didn't like the contract and definitely didn't like that we literally bid against ourselves at the last minute when we were his entire market. Now with hindsight of what happened - yeesh. Most of the analytical folks here predicted a decline, but the guy had a kid and forgot how to play baseball. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RarityFlaherty said:

We used to spend a lot of money. We usually spent it poorly, but it’s not like ownership was always as cheap as they have been recently. 

I agree but that was functionally different ownership.

We can only judge the current regime by what we have seen so far.

[Sanfran327]

2 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

Sure, but we have no idea how much money the team really has. How do we know that those good years weren't financed by some savings from the years prior?

 

1 minute ago, RarityFlaherty said:

We used to spend a lot of money. We usually spent it poorly, but it’s not like ownership was always as cheap as they have been recently. 

I think we were well into the top 10 during our recent playoff run, so I'm definitely partially kidding. The team will spend judiciously, which is reasonable. I think this regime will spend even more effectively, or at least that's the hope. That way, maybe we wont' fall off a cliff into irrelevance for another 5+ years when this wave of talent moves on. 

[Moose Milligan]

*yawns*

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Is it an example of financial health when ownership of a company removes the profits for personal use instead of reinvesting in the company?

I'd like to see what evidence you have of ownership removing profits for personal use in this particular case.

 

48 minutes ago, Sanfran327 said:

 

No fans give a crap about profitability. 

 

A lot of people here do.  They want to know that their whining about SPENDING MOAAAAARRRR is justified.

[RarityFlaherty]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I agree but that was functionally different ownership.

We can only judge the current regime by what we have seen so far.

Yeah, but most of what we’ve seen so far hasn’t been about us being competitive at the major league level. This is really the first offseason where we are trying to be competitive. I’d say thats’s way too small a sample to accurately judge the current regime by. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sanfran327 said:

 

I think we were well into the top 10 during our recent playoff run, so I'm definitely partially kidding. The team will spend judiciously, which is reasonable. I think this regime will spend even more effectively, or at least that's the hope. That way, maybe we wont' fall off a cliff into irrelevance for another 5+ years when this wave of talent moves on. 

I'm using stevetheump because I have to use something and I have no idea which is most accurate.  No agenda at all, if someone has better data, share it.

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm#2016_payroll

2014-15th, 2015-17th, 2016-15th, 2017-10th, 2018-14th

Those are opening day payrolls, obviously the O's ended up jettisoning a lot of that 2018 payroll.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

*yawns*

I'd like to see what evidence you have of ownership removing profits for personal use in this particular case.

 

I don't think he has any other sources of income so anything he's spent money on.

I'm not going to go digging into how much he's spending on the wife's music career or houses/cars.

[Frobby]

I don’t know why anyone should be surprised that the O’s were 4th in operating profit.  They also were very high last year on this list.  That’s what a rock-bottom payroll will do for you.  Of course, we know that MLB has disavowed the accuracy of Forbes’ numbers.   

As to the question about MASN’s profits, you can’t really know, because nobody knows what rights fees will be set for 2022; they’re still litigating the rights fees for 2012-16, for God’s sake.  When the arbitrators set the rights fees for that period, they did so on the basis that it would leave roughly $16 mm/yr in profit for MASN  on about $200 mm in revenues.  Most of that profit goes to the Orioles, but not all of it (assuming it’s distributed at all).   The Orioles’ ownership of MASN is shrinking by 1% per year, and is now at 76% for 2023.  It will continue shrinking until it reaches 67% in 2032.   
 

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

I'm not going to go digging into how much he's spending on the wife's music career or houses/cars.

Why not?  Not like you don't have anything better to do.

[AnythingO's]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

And just think, that’s not really including MASN either.

All other things staying constant I expected higher Operating Income in 2022 than this, they were at $83M in 2021. Salaries, payroll plus expenses were basically flat year on year so either Revenue dropped or Operating Cost was up significantly. With the last BAMtech payment I doubt Revenue dropped so Operating Costs had to rise about $20M for the math to work. Op Cost has risen some under ME but only $7M in 2021 over prior year. Something not right here.

[Going Underground]

The fans in San Diego seem to like the spending spree. I think they are being reckless but we shall see.

Padres cap season ticket sales due to ‘unprecedented’ demand | FOX 5 San Diego
https://fox5sandiego.com/sports/padres/padres-cap-season-ticket-sales-due-to-unprecedented-demand/

[Es4M11]

16 minutes ago, Sanfran327 said:

I think a lot of us were torn. I was/am a big CD fan, so that part of me was definitely happy to retain him. Didn't like the contract and definitely didn't like that we literally bid against ourselves at the last minute when we were his entire market. Now with hindsight of what happened - yeesh. Most of the analytical folks here predicted a decline, but the guy had a kid and forgot how to play baseball. 

I think it had less to do Davis having a kid, and more to do with MLB taking away his Adderall. Of course this is nothing but speculation on my part. That said, when MLB pulled Davis' therapeutic use exemption for Adderall and he had to switch to Vyvanse, that is when the wheels started to fall off. Then he spent the next couple seasons trying to get back his T.U.E. for Adderall.

If you ask me, the complaints he raised after the switch to Vyvanse about not being able to see the ball, and other comments he made at the time sort of seemed to me like he was dealing with stimulant withdraw. Of course this all opinion on my part.