I can't get over how much Angelos has killed off the fanbase

[AnythingO's]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He’s not smart, but thinks he is.  That’s dangerous. 

He thinks he is a "player" or "playah" but his only accomplishment was being born an Angelos.

[TonySoprano]

In the complaint filed by his brother, John is listed as living in Nashville.  He would even be a bigger idiot to maintain a Baltimore address when Tennessee has no state income tax.

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/angelos-angelos-complaint-baltimore-county.pdf

 

This is the 30th season under the Angelos family.

[Tony-OH]

7 hours ago, Porky said:

Since they last won the World Series in 1983, the O's have went 2,856-3,287. That's a .465 winning percentage, or roughly 75-87 on average. 

But, that World Series Championship was 40 years ago now. A 10 year old kid in 1983 is 50 years old now. When looking at filling a stadium, you're going to have to be appealing to the 18-35 market. One, because they're a large market with expendable income. Two, they're having kids and they're an important link to the next generation of fans.

For the sake of argument, let's just assume that kids generally start actively following professional sports where they identify with a team around seven years old. A 30 year old today would have been seven years old in 2000.

Since 2000, the O's are 1,613 - 2,009. That's a .445 winning percentage for a 72-90 record.

You mentioned 2007. A 30 year old in 2007 was born in 1977. Just old enough to experience the glory days of old and the 1983 Championship. Today in 2023, that's not the case.

I think the answer for the reduced attendance is pretty simple. The O's have stunk for a long time.

Camden Yards still drew crowds in 2007 because generations of diehard, permanent fans had been cultivated from its historic success in the 60s, 70s, and early 80s. Now, in 2023, we're seeing the effects that continued losing had on a generation of potential fans who are now 18-35 years old. They might just simply not care that much about baseball because they didn't grow up with it. The O's didn't do anything to warrant their attention during their formative years.

Also, the Nationals cannot be ignored either. Plenty of DC folks are O's fans because that was the only team in the area when they grew up. They kept their O's allegiance even after the Nats moved to town. But now, that's not the case for anyone who came of age after the Nats arrived in 2005.

Hopefully with the top farm system in baseball we'll be looking at a new O's Golden Age, which will in turn attract a new generation of fans. But, I don't think we can expect attendance to rebound to past numbers just because they start winning. The damage has already been done.

Pretty spot on assessment here!

[Frobby]

I’m taking anything alleged in Louis’ complaint with a healthy grain of salt.  He’s got his own agenda.  

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

He thinks he is a "player" or "playah" but his only accomplishment was being born an Angelos.

As they say, he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.  

[AnythingO's]

35 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, I knew he wouldn’t do it and like I said, even if he did, it wouldn’t be reality anyway. But don’t sit there and cry like a little bitch when people ask why you haven’t done it. 

Agreed, but the part I saw that set me off was: "...we should be judged by how much we drive all of our profits back into the product on the field."

Apparently, the Forbes Operating Income data are off by close to $150M over the last 2 years!!!  That statement should cause him huge grief, much more than opening books.

[AnythingO's]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m taking anything alleged in Louis’ complaint with a healthy grain of salt.  He’s got his own agenda.  

yes of course but that was a quote from a manifesto JA wrote, it is a written document apparently part of the legal record.

[Since1984]

15 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Pretty spot on assessment here!

I think of the Nationals WS run, as an optimist. Very little fan base for the first decade, yet a lot of Red Sox hats disappeared in the DMV area when they started winning. Baltimore can bounce back, if the powers that be allow for it and this team goes on a run.

I live in VA and noticed the same fandom change for the Ravens good run. Different markets now, but the die-hard fans continue to age out.

[TradeAngelos]

7 hours ago, Porky said:

Since they last won the World Series in 1983, the O's have went 2,856-3,287. That's a .465 winning percentage, or roughly 75-87 on average. 

But, that World Series Championship was 40 years ago now. A 10 year old kid in 1983 is 50 years old now. When looking at filling a stadium, you're going to have to be appealing to the 18-35 market. One, because they're a large market with expendable income. Two, they're having kids and they're an important link to the next generation of fans.

For the sake of argument, let's just assume that kids generally start actively following professional sports where they identify with a team around seven years old. A 30 year old today would have been seven years old in 2000.

Since 2000, the O's are 1,613 - 2,009. That's a .445 winning percentage for a 72-90 record.

You mentioned 2007. A 30 year old in 2007 was born in 1977. Just old enough to experience the glory days of old and the 1983 Championship. Today in 2023, that's not the case.

I think the answer for the reduced attendance is pretty simple. The O's have stunk for a long time.

Camden Yards still drew crowds in 2007 because generations of diehard, permanent fans had been cultivated from its historic success in the 60s, 70s, and early 80s. Now, in 2023, we're seeing the effects that continued losing had on a generation of potential fans who are now 18-35 years old. They might just simply not care that much about baseball because they didn't grow up with it. The O's didn't do anything to warrant their attention during their formative years.

Also, the Nationals cannot be ignored either. Plenty of DC folks are O's fans because that was the only team in the area when they grew up. They kept their O's allegiance even after the Nats moved to town. But now, that's not the case for anyone who came of age after the Nats arrived in 2005.

Hopefully with the top farm system in baseball we'll be looking at a new O's Golden Age, which will in turn attract a new generation of fans. But, I don't think we can expect attendance to rebound to past numbers just because they start winning. The damage has already been done.

Another great post. I was the kid in the early 80's who was born in the late 70's you are talking about. The World Series in 83 with the Colts leaving town at the same time ingrained baseball into he fabric of every kids life back then. I spent more time playing baseball as a kid than I did any other sport. The team was connected to the community, and youth more specifically. 20 yrs later it all started to crumble. And 20 years after that here we are.  An entire generation of lost fans that like you said are probably lost forever. And honestly I don't see them recapturing that excitement from the youth in this day and age. Like I said before there is just so many things working against them. It's hard to regain major market share after a decline like we have witnessed in any scenario, much less the uphill battle they are facing now. This team needs sustained success and excitement and the fans actually believing in the ownership to fully buy back in, so those trees are bearing fruit in another 20 yrs. I just don't see any way that happens. 

[StatusDC]

The fans aren't gone, they're hibernating. When the wins come, so will the masses.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, StatusDC said:

The fans aren't gone, they're hibernating. When the wins come, so will the masses.

How much winning?  How many fans?

Last stretch of winning they maxed out at under 2.5M.

Do you think that's a realistic ceiling going forward?

[spleen1015]

Does anyone know how the money works with MASN? What I mean is, if the O's sign a deal with NBC Sports Washington, NBC is going to make payments directly to the team. I don't know if MASN is owned by the O's or their both owned by the same entity, but does MASN pay the Orioles like another RSN would or does the owner of both decide to give the O's some money here and there?

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

Does anyone know how the money works with MASN? What I mean is, if the O's sign a deal with NBC Sports Washington, NBC is going to make payments directly to the team. I don't know if MASN is owned by the O's or their both owned by the same entity, but does MASN pay the Orioles like another RSN would or does the owner of both decide to give the O's some money here and there?

MASN pays rights fees directly to the Orioles.  Profits from MASN (which are different from the rights fees), if distributed, are payable to the limited partnership that owns both the Orioles and the majority share of MASN.  

[InsideCoroner]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

He’s not smart, but thinks he is.  That’s dangerous. 

Particularly when combined with wealth.

[StatusDC]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

How much winning?  How many fans?

Last stretch of winning they maxed out at under 2.5M.

Do you think that's a realistic ceiling going forward?

You know better than most how much trauma this fan base has endured over the years. The new crop of talent is exciting on paper, however, it will take a minimum of two consecutive winning seasons, including a deep playoff run in at least one of them, to truly draw the fan base and national interest. Once they start getting consistent prime-time coverage, people will undoubtably come. 

2.5-2.7M is very attainable if this rebuild isn't a fluke.