AL team to watch: White Sox

[HakunaSakata]

17 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hear you and agree with you in that I don't want to overpay for anyone. With all the talent that we have, it would be impossible to sell anywhere close to the farm for anyone. We have the trade capital to meet the demand for any available player in the game, without harming our future whatsoever.

I hope we can get a front of the rotation pitcher for peanuts or pennies on the dollar. I just don't think that is realistic. You have to give in order to get. But the good thing again, is that we have so much, we will be good no matter what!

It would take half the farm to land Cease though. Also, his walk rate is VERY concerning. I think he's much closer to a mid 3.00s / high 3.00s ERA guy than the pitcher he was last season.  Still a good pitcher, but probably overvalued from a trade target perspective and I'm not a fan of "buying high". 

[Bemorewins]

No one player could drain us of 'half the farm', we have 8 top 100 guys alone. That's with Gunnar being off that list. Even when Grayson graduates, he will be soon replaced on the top 100 list by another addition Basallo. And that's mentioning the rise of Willems. We truly have an embarrassment of riches within the org from a positional talent end of things. That's why guys who are top 100 guys at the AAA level and are Major League ready just have to sit in a holding pattern until we figure things out. There is not enough places for all of these guys to fit. We shouldn't be platooning elite top 50 prospects (really top 10 guys) unless they have extreme splits. That is a waste of talent and poor asset allocation. 

[emmett16]

24 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Ok, I'm sorry. Got it now. You are for trading for a top of the rotation starter, just not Cease. Understood.

If costs wasn't a factor, do you like Eduardo Rodriguez more than Dylan Cease as a top end talent? What do you think about a guy like Luzardo from MIA assuming that Alcantara is unavailable or the cost is too much?

I want a legit stud (someone like Burnes or Alcantara) that we could trade for and extend.  I know it would cost a ton, but I'd be willing to give up what was needed. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by emmett16

[Just Regular]

The Orioles still haven't been able to unseat the White Sox for the MLB Now A block, probably because third order wins still .500-ish.

For all that we kvetch about Hays and Santander's aptitude at missing a month a year, they had this manager-agnostic graphic on CHW 2021-2022.

L. Robert - Eloy - Grandal - Moncada - T. Anderson - 10 player seasons have exceeded 104 games played just twice.

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I want a legit stud (someone like Burnes or Alcantara) that we could trade for and extend.  I know it would cost a ton, but I'd be willing to give up what was needed. 

Ok now we are cooking! The problem is that neither may be available. Burnes almost assuredly will not be, as MIL looks to be in it and said they are not moving guys if they are. Alcantara would be my dream and he doesn't need to be extended as he is already signed through 2027 at an extremely team friendly rate.

But the issue with that is that because of that, it will cost more. For Alcantara, the conversation would start with us having to part with Gunnar or Holiday, plus 3 other top 100 guys.

Now I would be okay with letting one of those 2 go because of how similar they are and because we have so much infield prospect depth. But it is still a steep cost.

[emmett16]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Ok now we are cooking! The problem is that neither may be available. Burnes almost assuredly will not be, as MIL looks to be in it and said they are not moving guys if they are. Alcantara would be my dream and he doesn't need to be extended as he is already signed through 2027 at an extremely team friendly rate.

But the issue with that is that because of that, it will cost more. For Alcantara, the conversation would start with us having to part with Gunnar or Holiday, plus 3 other top 100 guys.

Now I would be okay with letting one of those 2 go because of how similar they are and because we have so much infield prospect depth. But it is still a steep cost.

I'd be Ok with that price.  I'd give up either Gunnar or Holiday if it got me Alcantara.  Burnes was my guy going into the season, but as mentioned with MIL hot start he might not be available. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by emmett16

[baltfan]

For any of these types of trades, we need to follow the Dodgers model.  They have repeatedly traded for top end guys and refused to give up the very top of their system in exchange. 

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, emmett16 said:

I'd be Ok with that price.  I'd give up either Gunnar or Holiday if it got me Alcantara.  Burnes was my guy going into the season, but as mentioned with MIL hot start he might not be available. 

We finally agree on something! lol

Alcantara is the very best pitcher that we can acquire and is easily one of the best in the sport. Yes I admit, better than Cease...lol

I am for it or really for any acquisition of front of the rotation starter. A guy like him will make all the difference in October, this year, next year, year after that, etc. Pitching is what matters most in the Fall. And we are going to have to find more of it than simply Grayson and hoping for Means. 

A pitcher like Alcantara puts us squarely in the realistic World Series contenders category. Right now with our starting staff being what it is, we are more pretenders. I just don't believe in the talent of Bradish, Kremer, or Gibson enough to think that it is reasonable to believe that they can help us win postseason games. And I don't believe in Hall as a starting pitcher at the Major League level at all. I believe that Hall is easily our most overrated prospect. He will be 25 this season and still hasn't figured out how to be successful at AAA. Nothing about him expect for his high strikeout rate suggest anything to like about him as a starter. Go back to pre-injury and look at what Grayson was doing at AAA compared to what Hall has ever done there, it's not even close!

[emmett16]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

We finally agree on something! lol

Alcantara is the very best pitcher that we can acquire and is easily one of the best in the sport. Yes I admit, better than Cease...lol

I am for it or really for any acquisition of front of the rotation starter. A guy like him will make all the difference in October, this year, next year, year after that, etc. Pitching is what matters most in the Fall. And we are going to have to find more of it than simply Grayson and hoping for Means. 

A pitcher like Alcantara puts us squarely in the realistic World Series contenders category. Right now with our starting staff being what it is, we are more pretenders. I just don't believe in the talent of Bradish, Kremer, or Gibson enough to think that it is reasonable to believe that they can help us win postseason games. And I don't believe in Hall as a starting pitcher at the Major League level at all. I believe that Hall is easily our most overrated prospect. He will be 25 this season and still hasn't figured out how to be successful at AAA. Nothing about him expect for his high strikeout rate suggest anything to like about him as a starter. Go back to pre-injury and look at what Grayson was doing at AAA compared to what Hall has ever done there, it's not even close!

I think O's can make a legit run with SP1 acquisition, GRod, and Means in playoffs.  I don't want a meh #2 or #3 type guy for our second tier prospects, I want a bonified big league #1 who can start all the playoff series and give us a solid chance to go up 1-0 before turning the ball over to ROY GRod. 

[TommyPickles]

I feel like people are being a bit harsh on Bradish here.

He's probably got the second-best stuff in the rotation behind Grayson. He's had three bad innings this year. Yes, that's a lot when you've only pitched 14 innings, and he has definitely walked too many, but he's looked really good at other times. I think he needs a bit more time to get settled in after that injury and regain his control before we throw in the towel on him being a long term option for this rotation.

I could totally see this being the rotation down the stretch and heading into the playoffs:

-Newly Acquired SP1

-John Means

-Kyle Gibson

-Kyle Bradish

-Grayson Rodriquez

 

 

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, emmett16 said:

I think O's can make a legit run with SP1 acquisition, GRod, and Means in playoffs.  I don't want a meh #2 or #3 type guy for our second tier prospects, I want a bonified big league #1 who can start all the playoff series and give us a solid chance to go up 1-0 before turning the ball over to ROY GRod. 

We are on the same page here!! Yes to your whole post...lol

[Bemorewins]

20 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

I feel like people are being a bit harsh on Bradish here.

He's probably got the second-best stuff in the rotation behind Grayson. He's had three bad innings this year. Yes, that's a lot when you've only pitched 14 innings, and he has definitely walked too many, but he's looked really good at other times. I think he needs a bit more time to get settled in after that injury and regain his control before we throw in the towel on him being a long term option for this rotation.

I could totally see this being the rotation down the stretch and heading into the playoffs:

-Newly Acquired SP1

-John Means

-Kyle Gibson

-Kyle Bradish

-Grayson Rodriquez

 

 

I wouldn't want Gibson or Bradish anywhere near a post season start unless it for 3 innings or so. Objectively speaking who are they beating amongst our post season competitors. Look at who the Yanks, Astros, Guardians, etc will be throwing out there for in a best of 5 or best of 7 series. Would you give them favorable odds in those match ups?

[TommyPickles]

16 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I wouldn't want Gibson or Bradish anywhere near a post season start unless it for 3 innings or so. Objectively speaking who are they beating amongst our post season competitors. Look at who the Yanks, Astros, Guardians, etc will be throwing out there for in a best of 5 or best of 7 series. Would you give them favorable odds in those match ups?

I mean, it depends on how the rest of Bradish's season goes.

Last season, no Oriole pitcher was better against Houston.

August 26th: Bradish threw 8.0 IP, 0 R, 2 H, 6 Ks against the Astros.

September 22nd: Bradish threw 8.2 IP, 0 R, 2 H, 10 Ks, 0 BB against the Astros.

The Astros would of course go on to win the World Series. 

So, yes, I might want Kyle Bradish pitching in those games.

[SteveA]

Cease makes $5.7 million this year and that will go up in arbitration each of the next two years.

Do we even know that John Angelos would approve a 2.5 year payroll committment that will likely be north of $25 million?

[SteveA]

28 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I wouldn't want Gibson or Bradish anywhere near a post season start unless it for 3 innings or so. Objectively speaking who are they beating amongst our post season competitors. Look at who the Yanks, Astros, Guardians, etc will be throwing out there for in a best of 5 or best of 7 series. Would you give them favorable odds in those match ups?

Except for 6 Gerrit Cole starts, every pitcher who has started a game this year for the Yankees has a season ERA of 4.91 or higher (and all the FIPs are 4.49 or higher).   Right now, any one of Gibson/Wells/Rodriguez would have the 2nd best #s on the Yankees staff.

Of course the Yankees will probably not be a postseason opponent anyway, they'll likely be at home watching on TV.