I appreciate "The Mountain", and he's been excellent so far...but he's going to break our hearts...

[Roy Firestone]

Look, you cant really knock Felix. He's dominated and there are few closers in the game better than he is right now...but he seems just he's on the verge of a meltdown.

He was even great Wednesday night too, but that ball hit to CF for the last out was just short of a heartbreak.

The guy throws filthy stuff...but as all closers go...he too will blow up against a team with a more potent, patient offense..I can see it coming. I used to be thrilled when Jim Johnson and later Zach Britton came on to pitch. before that Armando, even Randy Myers.....but they too out too many runners on and eventually it cost us big games.

I'm going to write something now that people will scoff at, and maybe even I think it's a bit daring....but its this.

Cano is better than Felix.

Better control, better at keep runners in check. Better at limiting walks and hits...I think Cano should be the closer and Felix should be the set up man.

I'm sure most wont agree...I just have a hunch that Felix's "sell by" date is coming...but I also feel Cano might be a better long term closer.

Again, grateful for what the Mountain is giving us...and theres no way they'll demote him, or should right now.

But when the smoke clears...Cano will be the better option to close.

Its just a matter of time..

[RZNJ]

I don’t think anyone would argue that Cano isn’t better right now.  Cano is better than everyone right now.    We have a great 1-2 punch whether it’s Felix to Cano or Cano to Felix.   

Edited May 18, 2023 by RZNJ

[Mr-splash]

They are both effective. I'm just happy with have 2 effective back end of the bullpen guys.

[Gurgi]

Bautista does look shaky this last month.  But maybe its just a problem we can work through.  One blown save was McKenna's fault.  One was ugly with walks and wild pitches scoring the run I think.  The other I cant remember.   

I cant see us freaking just yet.  We have a great record.  The team is running real hot right now.  I think I am going to want to actually see Bautista crater before changing.  

He was wild his entire life....the Orioles fixed him.  We can probably do it again.  And really his ERA is below two.   We gotta ride this out.  

[Sports Guy]

Saves don’t just occur in the 9th inning.

Most wave situations aren’t as high leverage as what you will see in the 7th and 8th inning. 
 

If Cano is better, we should want him for the higher leverage situations.

[Roll Tide]

4 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

Look, you cant really knock Felix. He's dominated and there are few closers in the game better than he is right now...but he seems just he's on the verge of a meltdown.

He was even great Wednesday night too, but that ball hit to CF for the last out was just short of a heartbreak.

The guy throws filthy stuff...but as all closers go...he too will blow up against a team with a more potent, patient offense..I can see it coming. I used to be thrilled when Jim Johnson and later Zach Britton came on to pitch. before that Armando, even Randy Myers.....but they too out too many runners on and eventually it cost us big games.

I'm going to write something now that people will scoff at, and maybe even I think it's a bit daring....but its this.

Cano is better than Felix.

Better control, better at keep runners in check. Better at limiting walks and hits...I think Cano should be the closer and Felix should be the set up man.

I'm sure most wont agree...I just have a hunch that Felix's "sell by" date is coming...but I also feel Cano might be a better long term closer.

Again, grateful for what the Mountain is giving us...and theres no way they'll demote him, or should right now.

But when the smoke clears...Cano will be the better option to close.

Its just a matter of time..

Roy….look at his numbers! I think your expectations are too high. It’s fine to ride Cano. But his stats were brutal the prior three years. If you’re expecting a perfection everytime you’re going to be disappointed no matter who it is. 

[Os4days]

Jeez… for some people, the sky is always falling. Every closer will eventually falter, not named Mariano Rivera. Back in the day, I remember Eric Gagne for the Dodgers was just dominant and sick for a few years but eventually blew up.
 

Felix will probably blow up too but he is our #1 and I’m behind him. There is no assurance that Cano will be the “man”. Sure so far, you could argue that he may be pitching better than anyone can recall in recent history but it’s only been what 20 games? Let’s see how things play out a bit…

[Billy F-Face3]

4 minutes ago, Os4days said:

Every closer will eventually falter, not named Mariano Rivera.

I remember Mariano Rivera blowing a few saves of his own several times. Pretty sure one of those was against the Orioles.

In regards to riding Cano, I think people have to take a step back and understand that over-usage has a price. Players are human, and they are subject to fatigue just like everybody else. Part of the reason why Bautista had issues is because Brandon Hyde overused him early in the season and he showed all the classic signs of fatigue. I won't say that's all of the issue when he was losing his command (he had that same issue in the minors) and walking batters, but it was a factor.

It's important to manage these pitchers in a healthy way that sustains them over the course of a 162 game season.

Right now, Bautista seems to have his command back so just manage him wisely, and see if he can continue to pitch this successfully.

[glenn__davis]

22 minutes ago, Os4days said:

Jeez… for some people, the sky is always falling. Every closer will eventually falter, not named Mariano Rivera. Back in the day, I remember Eric Gagne for the Dodgers was just dominant and sick for a few years but eventually blew up.
 

Felix will probably blow up too but he is our #1 and I’m behind him. There is no assurance that Cano will be the “man”. Sure so far, you could argue that he may be pitching better than anyone can recall in recent history but it’s only been what 20 games? Let’s see how things play out a bit…

Rivera blew his share of saves as well.  Including a WS Game 7.

But you mentioned Gagne.  What makes the great closers (Rivera, Hoffman, etc.) truly great is that they do it for many years.  There have been scores of closers that have been dominant for a shorter timeframe.  Gagne was one of those.  His peak was a lot shorter than the HOF guys - and I believe we found out he had some chemical help - but he was the most dominant closer I remember just in terms of having no chance at all against him.

Edited May 18, 2023 by glenn__davis

[Os4days]

The reason I referenced Mariano is because he was the only reliever in history that dominated for what 12+ years as a closer and he did it with just one pitch. My point being that most closers have a short shelf life, just enjoy the ride as long as you can. That’s what I am doing with Felix. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Os4days

[Frobby]

It’s not exactly a “hot take” that the guy with a 0.00 ERA, 0.185 WHIP, and 0.0 BB/9 is better than the guy with a 1.35 ERA, 1.250 WHIP and 6.5 BB/9.

That said, I agree with SG that the closer role is not necessarily more important than the set-up role, when the latter is defined correctly.  The closer tends to be used very inflexibly, pitching only the 9th inning and being used by rote any time the team has a lead of 1-3 runs in the 9th, except when he’s already pitched two days in a row, in which case the team will find someone else.  And honestly, a 3-run lead isn’t hard to protect.  Something like 99% of 3-run save attempts are successful.

The ace set-up guy, on the other hand, can come in any time in the 6th - 8th inning. He’s often brought in when another reliever has made a mess of things and the other team has momentum and runners on base.  He might be asked to throw up to two innings.   Or, if the closer has been used two days in a row, the ace set-up guy might fill the closer role that night.  

I’m here to tell you, the ace set-up role is as valuable or even more valuable than the closer role.  We saw this when Jim Johnson had that role.  We saw this when B.J. Ryan had that role.   We saw it at times with Darren O’Day.  The closer gets more glory, but the ace set-up guy is just as important, maybe more so.

Also, I think it’s worth putting down a marker to say that Cano has been untouchable for a quarter-season, but he’ll probably have his hiccups, where he loses his arm slot for a couple of weeks or has a bit of arm fatigue, and he’s not going to be this invulnerable all year.  He may well be our best reliever this year, but nobody does anything close to what he’s done for 162 games.

As to Bautista, anyone watching him closely knows that he started the year with an absolutely unhittable splittrr, lost command of it for 3-4 weeks, and is now  showing signs of having it back over his last 2-3 appearances.  The ones he threw to Ohtani were filthy.  All but one that he threw last night were in great locations.  

in sum, I expect Bautista to be very good, not perfect, and I’m sure he’ll blow a couple of saves along the way on days where command escapes him.  I expect Cano to be very good, not as good as he’s been so far, but pretty dominant and possibly more consistent than Bautista.  I don’t see any real reason to flip their roles, since I think Cano’s role is as important if not more important than Bautista’s.  And, I’m glad to have both of them. 

 

[Mr-splash]

57 minutes ago, Os4days said:

Jeez… for some people, the sky is always falling. Every closer will eventually falter, not named Mariano Rivera. Back in the day, I remember Eric Gagne for the Dodgers was just dominant and sick for a few years but eventually blew up.
 

Felix will probably blow up too but he is our #1 and I’m behind him. There is no assurance that Cano will be the “man”. Sure so far, you could argue that he may be pitching better than anyone can recall in recent history but it’s only been what 20 games? Let’s see how things play out a bit…

Mariano blew the World Series...

[Baltimorecuse]

I agree with every comment in this thread.  I'm not even thinking about looking ahead.  I live inning to inning.  I am not from this area but I've lived here for over 20 years , now and watching Brian Roberts got me back into the game.  

Right now I'm loving everything I'm seeing and I'm not going to worry about the Mountain "losing it".  

[Moshagge3]

Renfroe attacked 99 MPH on the first pitch he saw. If he gets around on it and hits it out, I tip my cap to him and I like our chances in extra innings.

[Hank Scorpio]

We’re lucky to have them both.