I appreciate "The Mountain", and he's been excellent so far...but he's going to break our hearts...

[Safelykept]

7 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

Look, you cant really knock Felix. He's dominated and there are few closers in the game better than he is right now...but he seems just he's on the verge of a meltdown.

He was even great Wednesday night too, but that ball hit to CF for the last out was just short of a heartbreak.

The guy throws filthy stuff...but as all closers go...he too will blow up against a team with a more potent, patient offense..I can see it coming. I used to be thrilled when Jim Johnson and later Zach Britton came on to pitch. before that Armando, even Randy Myers.....but they too out too many runners on and eventually it cost us big games.

I'm going to write something now that people will scoff at, and maybe even I think it's a bit daring....but its this.

Cano is better than Felix.

Better control, better at keep runners in check. Better at limiting walks and hits...I think Cano should be the closer and Felix should be the set up man.

I'm sure most wont agree...I just have a hunch that Felix's "sell by" date is coming...but I also feel Cano might be a better long term closer.

Again, grateful for what the Mountain is giving us...and theres no way they'll demote him, or should right now.

But when the smoke clears...Cano will be the better option to close.

Its just a matter of time..

Can't scoff at Cano being better than Felix because he's better than everyone right now. The last out was right at the warning track. Long outs are part of the game just ask Austin Hayes from Tuesday night, almost happened to Trout last night.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

I would classify Bautista as effectively wild and as long as he stays this way it’s fine. Would like to see some more clean innings from Bautista. 

When Givens is back it might present a good opportunity to give Bautista some rest. 

[Aristotelian]

Felix has two error-involved BS, plus a BS-win. 11 SV, 1.42 ERA, and has looked sharper and sharper throughout the season. I cringed when he came in to face Moniak-Trout-Ohtani (and Renfroe put a good swing on him!) but he got the job done. If you make a switch, then you just have Felix making us nervous earlier and potentially blowing the game before it gets to Cano. Cano isn't always going to be available so Felix is going to have to win ballgames for us. I just view them as 1A and 1B.

[Safelykept]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

It’s not exactly a “hot take” that the guy with a 0.00 ERA, 0.185 WHIP, and 0.0 BB/9 is better than the guy with a 1.35 ERA, 1.250 WHIP and 6.5 BB/9.

That said, I agree with SG that the closer role is not necessarily more important than the set-up role, when the latter is defined correctly.  The closer tends to be used very inflexibly, pitching only the 9th inning and being used by rote any time the team has a lead of 1-3 runs in the 9th, except when he’s already pitched two days in a row, in which case the team will find someone else.  And honestly, a 3-run lead isn’t hard to protect.  Something like 99% of 3-run save attempts are successful.

The ace set-up guy, on the other hand, can come in any time in the 6th - 8th inning. He’s often brought in when another reliever has made a mess of things and the other team has momentum and runners on base.  He might be asked to throw up to two innings.   Or, if the closer has been used two days in a row, the ace set-up guy might fill the closer role that night.  

I’m here to tell you, the ace set-up role is as valuable or even more valuable than the closer role.  We saw this when Jim Johnson had that role.  We saw this when B.J. Ryan had that role.   We saw it at times with Darren O’Day.  The closer gets more glory, but the ace set-up guy is just as important, maybe more so.

Also, I think it’s worth putting down a marker to say that Cano has been untouchable for a quarter-season, but he’ll probably have his hiccups, where he loses his arm slot for a couple of weeks or has a bit of arm fatigue, and he’s not going to be this invulnerable all year.  He may well be our best reliever this year, but nobody does anything close to what he’s done for 162 games.

As to Bautista, anyone watching him closely knows that he started the year with an absolutely unhittable splittrr, lost command of it for 3-4 weeks, and is now  showing signs of having it back over his last 2-3 appearances.  The ones he threw to Ohtani were filthy.  All but one that he threw last night were in great locations.  

in sum, I expect Bautista to be very good, not perfect, and I’m sure he’ll blow a couple of saves along the way on days where command escapes him.  I expect Cano to be very good, not as good as he’s been so far, but pretty dominant and possibly more consistent than Bautista.  I don’t see any real reason to flip their roles, since I think Cano’s role is as important if not more important than Bautista’s.  And, I’m glad to have both of them. 

 

Cano is in the spot I want him to be in right now. I grew up with the game in the 70's and they had an Award for best relief, they called the Rolaids relief picture of the Year (The fireman) because  in addition to closing your best reliever might come in 7th or 8th inning to put out a fire. So you're in a jam 7th or 8th inning with runners on who do want out of bullpen Felix or Cano? Probably Cano but put me in the camp that more than satisfied both are here.

[foxfield]

7 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

Look, you cant really knock Felix. He's dominated and there are few closers in the game better than he is right now...but he seems just he's on the verge of a meltdown.

He was even great Wednesday night too, but that ball hit to CF for the last out was just short of a heartbreak.

The guy throws filthy stuff...but as all closers go...he too will blow up against a team with a more potent, patient offense..I can see it coming. I used to be thrilled when Jim Johnson and later Zach Britton came on to pitch. before that Armando, even Randy Myers.....but they too out too many runners on and eventually it cost us big games.

I'm going to write something now that people will scoff at, and maybe even I think it's a bit daring....but its this.

Cano is better than Felix.

Better control, better at keep runners in check. Better at limiting walks and hits...I think Cano should be the closer and Felix should be the set up man.

I'm sure most wont agree...I just have a hunch that Felix's "sell by" date is coming...but I also feel Cano might be a better long term closer.

Again, grateful for what the Mountain is giving us...and theres no way they'll demote him, or should right now.

But when the smoke clears...Cano will be the better option to close.

Its just a matter of time..

Based on everything that you can consider...Cano is better than everyone...right now.  He is being used in a wide range of high leverage situations and is excelling.  And even if you are right, and the Sell BY date arrives on Felix....then I am not worried.  Because we are prepared.  That is what good teams do.

[OriolesMagic83]

I like Felix staying as the main closer but would like to see Cano get more save opportunities when the matchups dicatate it.  I don't like an inflexible closer role, where the closer can only pitch in the 9th w/ a lead and can't be relieved once he is in a game.  Somehow a closer's confidence is destroyed if he is taken out of a game, but every other pitcher in the bullpen can deal w/ being relieved.

[Sanfran327]

Cano is doing crazy things for being completely and totally inexperienced. I realize that Felix was in the same situation this time last year, but the experience he gained last year and his body language so far this year tells me that he doesn't sweat it when he gets himself into a jam. He stays calm and focused. Cano simply hasn't found himself in many bad situations yet (other than when Santander saved the game vs Pittsburgh on Saturday night), so his ability to stay cool is unknown. There is a major mental resilience component to being The Closer, IMO, and we don't have that info on Cano just yet. As many have said, I'm very okay keeping these guys in their current roles until one of them really forces the issue (re: Bautista has a prolonged period of actually giving away leads, not just slogging through saves).

[Emory Eagle]

I think it is entirely reasonable to be concerned about Felix.  For most of his career he has struggled with control.  His mechanics are off, and he is having difficulty repeating his delivery and throwing strikes with all of his pitches.  This is understandable given his physique. When you're putting men on base at the rate he's doing so currently, it is only a matter of time until you start allowing runs.  That said, his raw stuff is so good, and he's able to K at such a high rate, that even when he's struggling he's an asset.  I am worried though.  I hope he can improve his control, and add the slider to repertoire.  If he can, he has the potential to match Cano. 

[Frobby]

To begin the year, Bautista had 8.2 innings over 9 outings where he allowed 6 hits and 3 walks, 1 ER and struck out 16.  He had good command and his splitter was just about unhittable.  

Then he very suddenly lost the feel for the splitter, and in his next 8 games he threw 8.1 innings, allowed 4 hits and walked 10, and struck out 14 guys.

The last three outings, the splitter has gotten better each time.  He’s thrown 3 innings, allowed 1 hit and 1 walk, and struck out 8.   The one guy he walked was Mike Trout.

Bottom line, Felix’s command, especially of the splitter, went walkabout for a few weeks but now he seems back on track.  Even during his “bad” stretch he struck out 14 batters in 8.1 innings and allowed 2 earned runs.  I’m very comfortable with him right now.  
 

[jrobb21613]

What's the reason for Felix slight dip in velocity? I remember last year he was consistently 99-101. This year its been  more like 97-99, Is it by design?

[The Goob]

I would not even think about switching their role now or in the future.  Cano may be a great closer but like others have said I prefer him coming in the 7th or 8th especially if their are runners on base.  I want Felix to have his outing at the start of an inning whenever possible.  But I think more than anything else we know Felix loves the responsibility of being the closer and has the right mindset to finish games.  I'm not saying Cano doesn't I am saying we don't know.  I feel like we have Armando Benetiz setting up for Randy Myers again when they were completely dominant.  For those who have been fans long enough we remember what happened when Armando became the closer.  Not everyone can perform the same when its the 9th.

[sportsfan8703]

I agree that Cano usually is in the more high leverage situations in the 7th/8th innings and he can come on with runners on base. Bautista is fine. Cano is having a Gagne/Britton type season. 
 

Depending on what happens maybe we could be in the market for Jorge Lopez or Aroldis Chapman and really just turn games into 5-6 inning games. Especially in the playoffs. 

[jabba72]

Felix's velocity is down from early April, but his splitter was A+ last night. So im not sure what the problem is. He walked Trout but then struck out Ohtani with the splitter. His only issue right now is the fastball velocity isnt 100-101 like we're used to seeing. But my guess is he's taken something off it for durability. Its a long season and there will be games where he's needed 3 nights in a row.  

[interloper]

This thread is like 2 weeks too late. I don't really understand. Felix looks fine now?

[Tony-OH]

6 hours ago, RZNJ said:

I don’t think anyone would argue that Cano isn’t better right now.  Cano is better than everyone right now.    We have a great 1-2 punch whether it’s Felix to Cano or Cano to Felix.   

This. Cano is better than every pitcher in baseball right now. If I were Hyde, I'd be tempted to use Cano against the heart of the order whether that be the 8th or 9th innings. I know it's hard with closers because they expect to be in the 9th, but right now Cano is in the middle of a historic run of success. He's the closest thing I've seen to being unhittable as an Orioles pitcher. Even during Zach Britton's amazing 2016, he still allowed base runners here and there. Cano is doing something few have ever done when it comes to not even allowing base runners.

For me, you have to use Cano against the toughest batters late in the game and that should not matter whether it's in the 8th or 9th IMHO.