Ben Verlander: Os on cusp of dynasty…if they buy in

[Sports Guy]

 

[Frobby]

Are you Ben Verlander?

[Billy F-Face3]

[Hank Scorpio]

I'm sure that's what Elias wants. Not so sure about the you know who's...

[Bemorewins]

I believe this wholeheartedly and have thought so since last Summer. But he is right it is going to be up to ownership.

The thing that has me bullish on the belief in multiple post season runs is because unlike in 2014 when we looked at our team, we had pretty much maxed out and there were no significant improvements that we could make. Our farm didn’t have top level jewels. We had just traded away probably our best prospect in Eduardo Rodriguez to a division rival mind you, so you knew that would come back to bite us and it did. And we didn’t have anymore room to significantly increase payroll. Sure we replaced Cruz with Trumbo and a few minor alterations but that was it. (Other than signing Davis to that albatross of a contract.)

But we did not have the minor league system, player development, or Latin American infrastructure to sustain winning long term. It felt very hectic and helter skelter. There was no long range plan.

Now, things are completely different and the foundation of a longterm winning organization has been built properly. No hiring the manager before the GM this time. No GM who had been out of the game for a decade trying to relearn the game. They are not discarding the future for a singular shot at glory in order to get the manager that one elusive title. No more lineup of one dimensional hitters, with multiple holes in their swings/approach who lacked the elite plate discipline to be effective in the Fall.

It seems like we arrived at 2012 largely by accident, 2023 seems to be very intentional.

And my biggest hope/reason for optimism is that the Red Sox and Yankees cannot stop us or interrupt our ability to continue or the path. They have nothing close to the ammunition of prospects that we do and their money cannot get them there, at least not in the short term. The Yankees have an old expensive roster, who admittedly I believe was crafted for more post season success than the regular season. But Boston is stuck in the worse place, too good to be bad, and too bad to be good. They are expensive as well and have a very lopsided farm, and a GM who is on the ropes.

Having said all this, I really like our chances!

[Billy F-Face3]

Imagine if we can somehow get Jackson Holliday's little brother in the organization. Jackson says he's an athletic freak, so to speak. (In a good way). I love the history the Orioles have of brothers playing on the same team.

(On that note, Jorge Mateo's little brother just signed with the Orioles' Dominican team not that long ago.)

Now that's what I call a Dynasty. In a literal form.

[Moose Milligan]

Ben Verlander is kind of a putz.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

I believe this wholeheartedly and have thought so since last Summer. But he is right it is going to be up to ownership.

The thing that has me bullish on the belief in multiple post season runs is because unlike in 2014 when we looked at our team, we had pretty much maxed out and there were no significant improvements that we could make. Our farm didn’t have top level jewels. We had just traded away probably our best prospect in Eduardo Rodriguez to a division rival mind you, so you knew that would come back to bite us and it did. And we didn’t have anymore room to significantly increase payroll. Sure we replaced Cruz with Trumbo and a few minor alterations but that was it. (Other than signing Davis to that albatross of a contract.)

But we did not have the minor league system, player development, or Latin American infrastructure to sustain winning long term. It felt very hectic and helter skelter. There was no long range plan.

Now, things are completely different and the foundation of a longterm winning organization has been built properly. No hiring the manager before the GM this time. No GM who had been out of the game for a decade trying to relearn the game. They are not discarding the future for a singular shot at glory in order to get the manager that one elusive title. No more lineup of one dimensional hitters, with multiple holes in their swings/approach who lacked the elite plate discipline to be effective in the Fall.

It seems like we arrived at 2012 largely by accident, 2023 seems to be very intentional.

And my biggest hope/reason for optimism is that the Red Sox and Yankees cannot stop us or interrupt our ability to continue or the path. They have nothing close to the ammunition of prospects that we do and their money cannot get them there, at least not in the short term. The Yankees have an old expensive roster, who admittedly I believe was crafted for more post season success than the regular season. But Boston is stuck in the worse place, too good to be bad, and too bad to be good. They are expensive as well and have a very lopsided farm, and a GM who is on the ropes.

Having said all this, I really like our chances!

 Nobody ranked Eduardo over Bundy or Gausman.

 

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 Nobody ranked Eduardo over Bundy or Gausman.

 

True statement. But when we traded Eduardo wasn’t Gausman already in the bigs? I can’t remember but was Bundy then? Or was he on the mend?

Either way, you are absolutely correct.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Quote

"The writing is on the wall. It’s all up to the ownership at this point."

Somewhere at this very moment John Angelos' ears are burning.

 

[Mr-splash]

18 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Ben Verlander is kind of a putz.

He gets paid to talk about baseball. I think nearly everybody posting here would take that job. I would. 

[Hank Scorpio]

14 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

He gets paid to talk about baseball. I think nearly everybody posting here would take that job. I would. 

In Moose's defense, he's also kind of a putz.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

I believe this wholeheartedly and have thought so since last Summer. But he is right it is going to be up to ownership.

The thing that has me bullish on the belief in multiple post season runs is because unlike in 2014 when we looked at our team, we had pretty much maxed out and there were no significant improvements that we could make. Our farm didn’t have top level jewels. We had just traded away probably our best prospect in Eduardo Rodriguez to a division rival mind you, so you knew that would come back to bite us and it did. And we didn’t have anymore room to significantly increase payroll. Sure we replaced Cruz with Trumbo and a few minor alterations but that was it. (Other than signing Davis to that albatross of a contract.)

But we did not have the minor league system, player development, or Latin American infrastructure to sustain winning long term. It felt very hectic and helter skelter. There was no long range plan.

Now, things are completely different and the foundation of a longterm winning organization has been built properly. No hiring the manager before the GM this time. No GM who had been out of the game for a decade trying to relearn the game. They are not discarding the future for a singular shot at glory in order to get the manager that one elusive title. No more lineup of one dimensional hitters, with multiple holes in their swings/approach who lacked the elite plate discipline to be effective in the Fall.

It seems like we arrived at 2012 largely by accident, 2023 seems to be very intentional.

And my biggest hope/reason for optimism is that the Red Sox and Yankees cannot stop us or interrupt our ability to continue or the path. They have nothing close to the ammunition of prospects that we do and their money cannot get them there, at least not in the short term. The Yankees have an old expensive roster, who admittedly I believe was crafted for more post season success than the regular season. But Boston is stuck in the worse place, too good to be bad, and too bad to be good. They are expensive as well and have a very lopsided farm, and a GM who is on the ropes.

Having said all this, I really like our chances!

A lot to unpack here and while agree with a lot of what you wrote, especially about hiw the foundation of this organization is so much better, I do want to address two things.

One, Duquette was never brought in here to build a foundation he was brought in to win. Duquette was in win now mode and by 2014, he had built a world Series contender that was short circuited by a white hot Royals team in the ALCS. We will never know if Duquette would have been able to make another run because his power and influence for making major moves was destroyed by the Toronto fiasco. 

Now I think Elias is way better at building a strong foundation through his drafting, development and using technology to give his organization an edge. I absolutely think this organization is setup for a sustained run of successful baseball and Elias gets the credit for that as the man in charge of this rebuild. 

The questions that still remain though with Elias:
Can he acquire or develop top starting pitching, especially since he does not spend his high draft picks on pitchers?
Does he have the negotiation skills to pull off trades at the trading deadline or in the offseason that fill immediate needs?
Is he able to understand the free agent market each year and not overpay for redundant players and miss out on players he has a need for?
Is able to trade effectively by replacing average major league players that are getting expensive with the right prospects in order to keep his payroll down and afford those impact players?
Can he build a 26-man roster without redundant players and holes? 

We'll find out over the next year or two whether he can answer these questions, because these are the questions that will determine whether the Orioles become one of the elite teams in the major leagues with sustained success year in and year out or just that surprise up and coming team that never takes that next step.

 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

In Moose's defense, he's also kind of a putz.

Are you trying to say that Moose is good at recognizing a putz?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Are you trying to say that Moose is good at recognizing a putz?

He knows what you look like.