Would you make this trade for Shane Bieber and Jose Ramirez

[Sanity Check]

To get Shane Bieber for the rest of this year and for 2024 ((he's a free agent thereafter, and will likely go that route) and Jose Ramirez (signed through 2027).....

We give up Grayson Rodriguez, Drew Rom, Jordan Westburg and  Colton Cowser.

With Bieber, you've got your ace for the next year and a half, and the proven production of Jose Ramirez for 4 and a half years.

[Chelsea_Phil]

Hell No!!!!

[DirtyBird]

Is Bieber an ace?

[Sanity Check]

3 minutes ago, Chelsea_Phil said:

Hell No!!!!

Come on, tell me what you really think 

Seriously, which prospect in my trade gives you the most heartburn trading away?

Or, would you do this with only 3 of the guys I mentioned, and if so, who is the untouchable one?

[Sanity Check]

4 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Is Bieber an ace?

His stats are more proven and much better than anyone on our staff, and I think most people would say yes.  Am I missing something?

[ArtVanDelay]

Bieber is in decline.  6.2 K/9 is horrible.  He averaged 14.2 in his Cy Young year, although it was the shortened 2020.  His fastball is down 3 ticks from that year. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by ArtVanDelay

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

His stats are more proven and much better than anyone on our staff, and I think most people would say yes.  Am I missing something?

All his numbers look to be regressing. I would like to have him in our rotation, but not sure he is an elite pitcher anymore.

[ArtVanDelay]

Still interested in Bieber?

Edited May 29, 2023 by ArtVanDelay

[Sanity Check]

1 minute ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Still interested in Bieber?

Ouch, well that's not very encouraging.  I'd love to see this for Greg Maddux, for example.  It is possible that Bieber has better "command" of those pitches than the pitchers listed.

I would also love to see this comparison for Grayson Rodriguez......is it out there?

[btdart20]

I doubt Cleveland trades JoRam.  But they do need to unlock some of their pitching depth.  I wouldn’t be shocked if Bieber is traded or if we’re the one to land him.  Santander for Bieber?

[ArtVanDelay]

2 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Ouch, well that's not very encouraging.  I'd love to see this for Greg Maddux, for example.  It is possible that Bieber has better "command" of those pitches than the pitchers listed.

I would also love to see this comparison for Grayson Rodriguez......is it out there?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, btdart20 said:

I doubt Cleveland trades JoRam.  But they do need to unlock some of their pitching depth.  I wouldn’t be shocked if Bieber is traded or if we’re the one to land him.  Santander for Bieber?

Why would Cleveland want Satander?  One year of team control left and not all that cheap.

[btdart20]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Why would Cleveland want Satander?  One year of team control left and not all that cheap.

Agreed.  Same as Bieber though.  Cleveland will be interesting to see how they handle the trade deadline if they’re still in the mix.  They need offense and have pitching depth.

[Sanity Check]

14 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Bieber is in decline.  6.2 K/9 is horrible.  He averaged 14.2 in his Cy Young year, although it was the shortened 2020.  His fastball is down 3 ticks from that year. 

But he consistently goes at least 6 innings and gives up 3 or fewer runs.  Who wouldn't want that?

Grayson had a much better K/9.  What did that do for us?  Don't results matter more than cherry-picked statistics? 

If K/9 is the standard, then let's get GrayRod back up here, right?

I'm getting the impression from a few so far that if we did get Bieber, it would not upgrade to the top of our rotation.  That's fair, I'm just not sure I agree. 

[Sanity Check]

7 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

I doubt Cleveland trades JoRam.  But they do need to unlock some of their pitching depth.  I wouldn’t be shocked if Bieber is traded or if we’re the one to land him.  Santander for Bieber?

If you're Cleveland, wouldn't you rather get prospects?  I don't see Santander landing a pitching upgrade from an underperforming team.  Most teams that are sellers will want prospects in return to build with.  Just my opinion.