Marcus Stroman

[cnmilton]

Does Stroman have the type of personality that Elias seems to look? Would Stromans personality mesh with the current Orioles clubhouse? I don't know the answers to these questions.

 

Part of the strength of this year's team is their tea chemistry. In previous years, there have been questions asked about Stroman being a bad teammate, as well asseveral temper tantrums displayed on the field. 

 

 

[Bemorewins]

13 minutes ago, cnmilton said:

Does Stroman have the type of personality that Elias seems to look? Would Stromans personality mesh with the current Orioles clubhouse? I don't know the answers to these questions.

 

Part of the strength of this year's team is their tea chemistry. In previous years, there have been questions asked about Stroman being a bad teammate, as well asseveral temper tantrums displayed on the field. 

 

 

I don’t know anything about Marcus Stroman the human being or his personality. But if that is a concern, you move on to the next available quality pitcher. But what’s more important than personality in my opinion is ability/performance. That needs to be the chief determining factor for us. We are not a team who needs to overly depend/rely on chemistry/relationships and/or other non-quantitative qualities in order to compete with the big boys… Not anymore.

We took very extreme steps to amass a talent pool that is arguably deeper than any other organization. Now we need to go about adding the final piece(s) to that equation. I’m more concerned about whether Stroman can get outs in key spots, not who his BFFs are on the team or whether he speaks to everyone in the clubhouse when he comes in everyday. Those type of things are for underdog teams who are outmanned in the talent department. That needn’t not be our primary focus anymore.

[Tryptamine]

3 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I never said Stroman. Re-read and you will understand that I was writing in broad terms. 

With that said, this is a thread about Stroman and based on your quote, I have just now gained the impression that you may be over rating Stroman.

Can we stop with this? The guy has the #21 best ERA in baseball since 2020 amongst pitchers who have thrown 200 or more innings. That's ahead of Dylan Cease, Gerrit Cole, Sonny Gray, etc. Yes he's not the tip top elite, but he's very good and I can't figure out why so many people don't realize this.  I know he doesn't have a flashy K/9, but he induces a crazy amount of balls on the ground and otherwise weak contact. 

[Bemorewins]

14 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Can we stop with this? The guy has the #21 best ERA in baseball since 2020 amongst pitchers who have thrown 200 or more innings. That's ahead of Dylan Cease, Gerrit Cole, Sonny Gray, etc. Yes he's not the tip top elite, but he's very good and I can't figure out why so many people don't realize this.  I know he doesn't have a flashy K/9, but he induces a crazy amount of balls on the ground and otherwise weak contact. 

Stroman is much better than ANYTHING that we have now. However, he is. It on Gerrit Cole’s level and he has not produced anything close to as good as what Cease produced last year. 

Stroman is inarguably an upgrade to what we have. But the question is, is he good enough to fill the void of what we need? If given a choice, (and depending on the value necessary to surrender) I would rather have Eduardo Rodriguez this year than Marcus Stroman. But having both would be the best outcome to me…lol

[Bemorewins]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

Stroman is much better than ANYTHING that we have now. However, he is. It on Gerrit Cole’s level and he has not produced anything close to as good as what Cease produced last year. 

Stroman is inarguably an upgrade to what we have. But the question is, is he good enough to fill the void of what we need? If given a choice, (and depending on the value necessary to surrender) I would rather have Eduardo Rodriguez this year than Marcus Stroman. But having both would be the best outcome to me…lol

Sorry autocorrect got me there - Should have read “He is not on Garret Cole’s level.”

[Tryptamine]

Not sure how you can say that when he has actually been better than Cole since 2020. Do I prefer Cole? Absolutely, but production wise they've been near the same guy with Stroman coming out ahead.  

 

[Bemorewins]

35 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Not sure how you can say that when he has actually been better than Cole since 2020. Do I prefer Cole? Absolutely, but production wise they've been near the same guy with Stroman coming out ahead.  

 

I don’t want/mean to call you out on this but you may want to go back to whatever numbers that you used to arrive at the conclusion that Stroman has been “better” than Garret Cole since 2020. 

1) Stroman didn’t even pitch in 2020. Not a single game.

2) While their numbers are very comparable this season thus far (and I’m giving Stroman the slight advantage). What about Stroman’s 2022 numbers were better? The 138.2 innings he threw as compared to Cole’s 200? Yes they had a similar 3.50 ERA but the IP and K department was vastly superior in Cole’s advantage. 

3 The 2021 numbers were similarly. But the advantage goes to Cole in the WHIP and WAR department. 

Garret Cole is a much more talented pitcher than Marcus Stroman and he is valued more by the game of baseball. Now that doesn’t take away from what Stroman has produced for his career or from the close statistical outputs for a few recent seasons. But are you really going to argue with me that any of the 30 MLB teams would rather have Stroman than Cole?

[HakunaSakata]

2 hours ago, cnmilton said:

Does Stroman have the type of personality that Elias seems to look? Would Stromans personality mesh with the current Orioles clubhouse? I don't know the answers to these questions.

 

Part of the strength of this year's team is their tea chemistry. In previous years, there have been questions asked about Stroman being a bad teammate, as well asseveral temper tantrums displayed on the field. 

 

 

I have concerns about Stroman's sustained success (with such a middling strikeout rate), but I have zero conerns about his personality. 

[Tryptamine]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I don’t want/mean to call you out on this but you may want to go back to whatever numbers that you used to arrive at the conclusion that Stroman has been “better” than Garret Cole since 2020. 

1) Stroman didn’t even pitch in 2020. Not a single game.

2) While their numbers are very comparable this season thus far (and I’m giving Stroman the slight advantage). What about Stroman’s 2022 numbers were better? The 138.2 innings he threw as compared to Cole’s 200? Yes they had a similar 3.50 ERA but the IP and K department was vastly superior in Cole’s advantage. 

3 The 2021 numbers were similarly. But the advantage goes to Cole in the WHIP and WAR department. 

Garret Cole is a much more talented pitcher than Marcus Stroman and he is valued more by the game of baseball. Now that doesn’t take away from what Stroman has produced for his career or from the close statistical outputs for a few recent seasons. But are you really going to argue with me that any of the 30 MLB teams would rather have Stroman than Cole?

I stated I preferred Cole as well, but there isn't a large gap between the two. As far as WAR goes, especially fWAR, it has always been significantly higher on high K guys while severely undervaluing pitchers who induce weak contact.  Kyle Hendricks was an example. As far as year range goes, we can use 2021-present if you prefer. That puts Stroman at 3.11(25th) and Gerrit Cole at 3.30(30th).  Again, I'd chose Cole going forward as well, but based strictly on results,  Stroman has had the edge.

[Bemorewins]

18 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I stated I preferred Cole as well, but there isn't a large gap between the two. As far as WAR goes, especially fWAR, it has always been significantly higher on high K guys while severely undervaluing pitchers who induce weak contact.  Kyle Hendricks was an example. As far as year range goes, we can use 2021-present if you prefer. That puts Stroman at 3.11(25th) and Gerrit Cole at 3.30(30th).  Again, I'd chose Cole going forward as well, but based strictly on results,  Stroman has had the edge.

If you "prefer" Cole as I do, what is the argument? That Stroman has edged him the last 2 seasons in some statistical categories? If so, that's fair.

I don't have a problem if the O's decide to pursue Stroman (given that he's the best available). I have my doubts to that because I believe Eduardo Rodriguez will be available and he has been better this season.

I would love a scenario where the Orioles acquire BOTH Stroman and Eduardo. But not sure if that have the will to make both trades. Either one would be superior to what we have now.

[Billy F-Face3]

8 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

 

If that’s all we offer, the Cubs will say fine and move on and get much better from some other team. 

That's fine. They can simply decline and move on. It would be foolish to give up the farm and run thr shot at a 10 year window of winning baseball. That is the sacrifice you risk when you're trading for an older player or a rental. I also disagree that Stroman is anything significantly of an upgrade to what we already have in the likes of Dean Kremer, Kyle Gibson, or Tyler Wells (who led MLB in WHIP last time I checked prior to his previous start).

Desperate GM's make bad decisions like the one that got you the franchise crippling Chris Davis contract.

[Billy F-Face3]

*foolish to give up the farm and ruin their shot at a 10 year window of winning.

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, cnmilton said:

Does Stroman have the type of personality that Elias seems to look? Would Stromans personality mesh with the current Orioles clubhouse? I don't know the answers to these questions.

 

Part of the strength of this year's team is their tea chemistry. In previous years, there have been questions asked about Stroman being a bad teammate, as well asseveral temper tantrums displayed on the field. 

 

 

I saw Stroman on a panel with Adam Jones a couple of years ago discussing why there are so few African Americans in MLB these days.  I thought he was very impressive.   Would love to have him on the team from a personality standpoint.  

[Bemorewins]

11 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

That's fine. They can simply decline and move on. It would be foolish to give up the farm and run thr shot at a 10 year window of winning baseball. That is the sacrifice you risk when you're trading for an older player or a rental. I also disagree that Stroman is anything significantly of an upgrade to what we already have in the likes of Dean Kremer, Kyle Gibson, or Tyler Wells (who led MLB in WHIP last time I checked prior to his previous start).

Desperate GM's make bad decisions like the one that got you the franchise crippling Chris Davis contract.

Chris Davis has NOTHING AT ALL WHATSOEVER to do with this discussion. How are he and Marcus Stroman related AT ALL??

I guess we can agree to disagree on the talent and production of Stroman vs what we have. I don’t even have the interest in pulling up the stats to show you. Feel free to check them out if you want.

The final thing I want to respond to is the whole “give up the farm” notion. What does that even mean? 

Can you propose 1 SINGLE realistic trade scenario where we will have to allegedly “give up the farm”? Is one of Westburg/Ortiz plus one of Mayo/Norby the farm? 

I’m not proposing that for Stroman as I think you can get him for one of the 4 players plus another lower ranked prospect maybe 15-25ish. 

But if we had to give up that kind of package for a difference making starter like Luzardo who is under contract for multiple years, would we still have a farm? Would we still not have Holliday, Kjerstad, Cowser and one of Westburg/Ortiz plus Grayson, Gunnar, and Adley still within the org?

[HakunaSakata]

2 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

I stated I preferred Cole as well, but there isn't a large gap between the two. As far as WAR goes, especially fWAR, it has always been significantly higher on high K guys while severely undervaluing pitchers who induce weak contact.  Kyle Hendricks was an example. As far as year range goes, we can use 2021-present if you prefer. That puts Stroman at 3.11(25th) and Gerrit Cole at 3.30(30th).  Again, I'd chose Cole going forward as well, but based strictly on results,  Stroman has had the edge.

I'm sorry, but when we've reached the point where we're actually having a serious debate about whether or not Marcus Stroman is better or even comparable to Gerrit Cole based solely on statistics then I think it might be time to step away from the spreadsheets and actually watch a few games.