What do you think the goal of this season should be: win or develop?

[waroriole]

Look how dumb the Yankees are calling Volpe up to start the season. Is it supposed to be about winning or developing?

[Frobby]

59 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Look how dumb the Yankees are calling Volpe up to start the season. Is it supposed to be about winning or developing?

Let’s not overstate the point.  The issue isn’t whether a contending team can start a rookie.  Rather, the question is how many rookies will you deploy at the same time, and take playing time away from incumbent players, when the team has been winning?

I mentioned Lynn/Rice, someone mentioned Bumbry/Coggins.  The ‘77 O’s had Murray, Dauer, Dennis Martinez and McGregor.

Somebody mentioned that the ‘75 Red Sox were in a different era (and those other O’s teams I mentioned were too).  I’m sure if I looked around for ten minutes I could find more recent very good teams that had a pretty heavy rookie component.  

[waroriole]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Let’s not overstate the point.  The issue isn’t whether a contending team can start a rookie.  Rather, the question is how many rookies will you deploy at the same time, and take playing time away from incumbent players, when the team has been winning?

I mentioned Lynn/Rice, someone mentioned Bumbry/Coggins.  The ‘77 O’s had Murray, Dauer, Dennis Martinez and McGregor.

Somebody mentioned that the ‘75 Red Sox were in a different era (and those other O’s teams I mentioned were too).  I’m sure if I looked around for ten minutes I could find more recent very good teams that had a pretty heavy rookie component.  

If the incumbent players aren’t performing, why not give more opportunities to the guys from the highly touted farm system who are clearly ready for Baltimore? There’s no reason Hyde shouldn’t be able to find 4-5 games per week for each of Henderson, Westburg, Urias, Mateo and Frazier. Then the better players start getting more games at the end of the season. Same should’ve been done with Stowers to start the season. 

[Sports Guy]

The idea that you don’t take at bats away from mediocre, declining vets to give chances to more talented and younger players because you have won so far is one of the most absurd stances I have seen people take on here.

 

[AnythingO's]

43 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The idea that you don’t take at bats away from mediocre, declining vets to give chances to more talented and younger players because you have won so far is one of the most absurd stances I have seen people take on here.

I agree but is that "take" because that's what they think due to winning games or because they agree with the ME-Sigbot decision making due to outcome? I still believe most of the decisions to NOT give ABs to Ortiz, Stowers were made by Hyde to play his vets. I refuse to believe the Sigbot would recommend Frazier, O'Hearn, Vavra in RF over a qualified COF. I don't think ME will give Hyde a prospect the stature of Cowser unless he is certain to play regularly. ME cares less about Vavra, Stowers, Norby rank prospects, not sure about Ortiz but he is hurt and regular PT would require moving Frazier-Urias cause Hyde won't do it.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, AnythingO's said:

I agree but is that "take" because that's what they think due to winning games or because they agree with the ME-Sigbot decision making do to outcome? I still believe most of the decisions to NOT give ABs to Ortiz, Stowers were made by Hyde to play his vets. I refuse to believe the Sigbot would recommend Frazier, O'Hearn, Vavra in RF over a qualified COF. I don't think ME will give Hyde a prospect the stature of Cowser unless he is certain to play regularly. ME cares less about Vavra, Stowers, Norby rank prospects, not sure about Ortiz but he is hurt and regular PT would require moving Frazier-Urias cause Hyde won't do it.

I think people are more than fine with it but I also think most people are fine with whatever they are being told by the team and don’t want to have their own opinions on things.

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, AnythingO's said:

I agree but is that "take" because that's what they think due to winning games or because they agree with the ME-Sigbot decision making do to outcome? I still believe most of the decisions to NOT give ABs to Ortiz, Stowers were made by Hyde to play his vets. I refuse to believe the Sigbot would recommend Frazier, O'Hearn, Vavra in RF over a qualified COF. I don't think ME will give Hyde a prospect the stature of Cowser unless he is certain to play regularly. ME cares less about Vavra, Stowers, Norby rank prospects, not sure about Ortiz but he is hurt and regular PT would require moving Frazier-Urias cause Hyde won't do it.

Hyde will do whatever ME tells him. That’s how he has kept his job for so long, despite only 1 barely winning season before this one.

[Remember The Alomar]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Hyde will do whatever ME tells him. That’s how he has kept his job for so long, despite only 1 barely winning season before this one.

This has been stated many times here, but I think we all overrate the importance of a manager's in-game decisions and underrate what he brings to the clubhouse over 162 games. I think Hyde is still here because he excels at the latter. 

[Bemorewins]

Just now, Remember The Alomar said:

This has been stated many times here, but I think we all overrate the importance of a manager's in-game decisions and underrate what he brings to the clubhouse over 162 games. I think Hyde is still here because he excels at the latter. 

Hyde can easily and I mean easily be replaced with someone who will do what Elias wants. Hyde will play the players Elias wants played or he will no longer be manager. It’s really they simple.

[accinfo]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Hyde will do whatever ME tells him. That’s how he has kept his job for so long, despite only 1 barely winning season before this one.

He has kept his job because he deserved to keep his job.  He had only 1 winning season because he has managed a minor league roster most of his managerial career.  You can't win without players.  Now he has some good ones and he is winning at a very decent clip.

[Remember The Alomar]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Hyde can easily and I mean easily be replaced with someone who will do what Elias wants. Hyde will play the players Elias wants played or he will no longer be manager. It’s really they simple.

I don't think I disagreed with you, although it's impossible to know the reality of the Elias-Hyde dynamic. I just stated that the most important thing a manager can do is keep a clubhouse together for the entirety of a season. You're wildly underrating the people skills required of the role. 

[geschinger]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The idea that you don’t take at bats away from mediocre, declining vets to give chances to more talented and younger players because you have won so far is one of the most absurd stances I have seen people take on here.

 

I completely agree they should take at-bats from mediocre declining vets to give to younger, more talented players - it's better for long-term success.  But the odds are high it could come at a cost while they acclimate or in the unfortunate event they prove not to be ready or that they are a dreaded AAAA player. 

I would have made Ortiz the regular SS a few weeks ago and now that he's been out I'd give the chance to Westburg.  But if they did that and he struggled and it coincided with losing ground in the standings there will be a lot of people in the stands, in the clubhouse, and elsewhere openly wondering why they screwed up a formula that seemed to have been working.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, accinfo said:

He has kept his job because he deserved to keep his job.  He had only 1 winning season because he has managed a minor league roster most of his managerial career.  You can't win without players.  Now he has some good ones and he is winning at a very decent clip.

I don’t really disagree with you. But unfortunately in the modern game, many decisions are taken out of human hands and are placed in a computers. Hyde does what Elias and the analytics department led by Sig say is best and what they want/believe in. That’s just the way things work nowadays. Maybe Buck, Bochy, Dusty (guys of those ilk) get a little more leeway? But for the most part the players infield manager carries out the wishes of the front office.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Remember The Alomar said:

I don't think I disagreed with you, although it's impossible to know the reality of the Elias-Hyde dynamic. I just stated that the most important thing a manager can do is keep a clubhouse together for the entirety of a season. You're wildly underrating the people skills required of the role. 

Not at all! I’m in a “people business”. I lead people for a living. So I am well aware of how important that is.

[Remember The Alomar]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

Not at all! I’m in a “people business”. I lead people for a living. So I am well aware of how important that is.

We have similar jobs then. But that is my point—Hyde has been given the run he's had because of his soft skills. And we both know how hard that is to hire for.