Bowden: Top 100 guys on GMs minds for trades

[deward]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hurr, Hurr, trade a guy I don't want on the team.

Other teams are stupid.

Barring the revelation of a serious injury you couldn't ask for Hall's trade value to be lower than it is now.  Other teams know he's lost velocity.

For a reliever, especially a rental, someone with Hall's upside wouldn't be a bad get. He obviously wouldn't be the centerpiece for a starter at this point, unless maybe a rental at the backend of the rotation, but they don't need that.

[sportsfan8703]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hurr, Hurr, trade a guy I don't want on the team.

Other teams are stupid.

Barring the revelation of a serious injury you couldn't ask for Hall's trade value to be lower than it is now.  Other teams know he's lost velocity.

See Darell Hernaiz

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=hernai000dar
 

I think baseball is probably valuing our prospects pretty high right now. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

See Darell Hernaiz

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=hernai000dar
 

I think baseball is probably valuing our prospects pretty high right now. 

See Cole Irvin.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/i/irvinco01.shtml

[Brooks The Great]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is the WS winnable this year for us?  Can we catch TB?  Injuries to Adley or SP seem like the only places we don’t have immediate depth. July 31 will be a much clearer picture. If the division and home field is realistic, then maybe we do go for it. TB is just so deep too. Idk, how Texas is doing it. 
 

It wouldn’t be too crazy to see the Twins fall out of it and make Lopez available. But in what scenario are they 5 GB+ in their division in 5 weeks?  

With the prospects we have available to step in - Ortiz, Westburg, Cowser, Kjerstad - between now and September 1, yes, we are a World Series contender. Potential trades for pitching make it even more of a likelihood. I was one of the few posters that expected this team to make the playoffs before the season and early in the season before it became clear to the general public (sports books, Fangraphs type sites, media outlets) that this team is a playoff-caliber team. 

I also think TB can be caught, but Elias slow-playing COW (Cowser, Ortiz, Westburg) and allowing Mateo and Frazier to kill the lineup hurts those chances each day that the correct changes aren't made.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hurr, Hurr, trade a guy I don't want on the team.

Other teams are stupid.

Barring the revelation of a serious injury you couldn't ask for Hall's trade value to be lower than it is now.  Other teams know he's lost velocity.

You spew out this drivel all the time  and you look stupid everytime you do.  Yes, these are guys WE want to trade. Why? Because we have depth in front of them. In other organizations, these guys are rated far higher than they are here.

These guys all have value. Hall May have decreased velo now but I guarantee you lots of teams would love to add him.

Just because they are guys we highlight to trade, doesn’t mean they are garbage players. 
 

When you have the #1 farm system, that means you have a lot of depth and a lot of talent and it means that guys outside of your top 10 are solidly in many teams top 10. Trading those guys would be best for the team and, in many cases, those guys will represent the best talent teams can get back.

Are we getting back elite stud players with several years of service time left?  No, not at all but then again, no one is saying that despite your ridiculous comments.

But for solid guys, relievers, rentals, etc…? Those guys are absolutely enough to get us players that can help us.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, deward said:

For a reliever, especially a rental, someone with Hall's upside wouldn't be a bad get. He obviously wouldn't be the centerpiece for a starter at this point, unless maybe a rental at the backend of the rotation, but they don't need that.

I don't think you are going to get anything close to quality unless Hall gets his velocity back.

 

[dzorange]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t see them moving Urias, Hays or Santander for anyone who can’t help them this year.

I don't think Elias can get away with selling high on those guys without getting a return that is clearly meant to improve the team's playoff chances this year.

They sold high at the deadline, as they should have and the return they got for Mancini and Lopez was pretty awesome. But they took flack from both fans and the national media for selling away two productive favorites in the middle of a playoff push.

Then this past offseason people took Elias' comments on "lifting off" however they took them, and he didn't deliver a notable starting pitcher to Baltimore. I'm on board with that, and it's worked out so far to a degree, but after striking out (in the fans minds) two out of two times, I don't think it would be appropriate to try this again.

Urias isn't playing great this year, but is a solid player coming off a Gold Glove season. Santander has locked up the middle of the order for years now. Hays has proven to be an MLB level starter and has been hot all year. I don't think the fans would take kindly to getting trading these guys, especially the latter two, without getting an obviously good return immediately. Selling high and then not making the playoffs wouldn't sit well with long time fans who have stuck it out over the past five years.

Normally I don't think you should pivot just because of public perception - keep sticking to your plan that has had good results in recent times. But I think it's different when they're heading into July seventeen games over .500 and have been flirting with the second best record in baseball all year long. I also think the O's have a lot of flexibility with what they can do.

I don't see Frazier getting much of a return, I do think he has value as well. I think the only reason they would get rid of him is to open the door for Westburg, Ortiz, and Urias. It would be addition by subtraction, but Frazier does have value.

Edited June 22, 2023 by dzorange

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

You spew out this drivel all the time  and you look stupid everytime you do.  Yes, these are guys WE want to trade. Why? Because we have depth in front of them. In other organizations, these guys are rated far higher than they are here.

These guys all have value. Hall May have decreased velo now but I guarantee you lots of teams would love to add him.

Just because they are guys we highlight to trade, doesn’t mean they are garbage players. 
 

When you have the #1 farm system, that means you have a lot of depth and a lot of talent and it means that guys outside of your top 10 are solidly in many teams top 10. Trading those guys would be best for the team and, in many cases, those guys will represent the best talent teams can get back.

Are we getting back elite stud players with several years of service time left?  No, not at all but then again, no one is saying that despite your ridiculous comments.

But for solid guys, relievers, rentals, etc…? Those guys are absolutely enough to get us players that can help us.

No, YOU want to trade the players because YOU think they don't have much value but YOU expect other teams to value them, because...they aren't as smart as YOU?

Yes I'm sure other teams would love to be gifted Hall.  But his value is at an all-time low right now and you won't get much for him.

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, deward said:

For a reliever, especially a rental, someone with Hall's upside wouldn't be a bad get. He obviously wouldn't be the centerpiece for a starter at this point, unless maybe a rental at the backend of the rotation, but they don't need that.

It would be ideal if Hall could just be that reliever this year. We should definitely give him a legit look as a reliever before the deadline. He can always go back to starting after this season. Even if he’s not a SP going forward, that’s still 6 years of control of a lefty pitcher with options. 
 

I’d also give Darwinzon Hernandez and Wandisson Charles chances before we go making a deal. They’re two really live arms. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, dzorange said:

I don't think Elias can get away with selling high on those guys without getting a return that is clearly meant to improve the team's playoff chances this year.

They sold high at the deadline, as they should have and the return they got for Mancini and Lopez was pretty awesome. But they took flack from both fans and the national media for selling away two productive favorites in the middle of a playoff push.

Then this past offseason people took Elias' comments on "lifting off" however they took them, and he didn't deliver a notable starting pitcher to Baltimore. I'm on board with that, and it's worked out so far to a degree, but after striking out (in the fans minds) two out of two times, I don't think it would be appropriate to try this again.

Urias isn't playing great this year, but is a solid player coming off a Gold Glove season. Santander has locked up the middle of the order for years now. Hays has proven to be an MLB level starter and has been hot all year. I don't think the fans would take kindly to getting trading these guys, especially the latter two, without getting an obviously good return.

Normally I don't think you should pivot just because of public perception - keep sticking to your plan that has had good results in recent times. But I think it's different when they're heading into July seventeen games over .500 and have been flirting with the second best record in baseball all year long.

I don't see Frazier getting much of a return, I do think he has value as well. I think the only reason they would get rid of him is to open the door for Westburg, Ortiz, and Urias. It would be addition by subtraction, but Frazier does have value.

Hays or Santander are tougher sells but Urias is not. They have plenty of IFers ready to help now.

The thing about Urias is the insurance he provides. Really like having him for that reason.

[sportsfan8703]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

See Cole Irvin.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/i/irvinco01.shtml

Please no more Irvin. My point is that our spare parts have value. Heck, Hernaiz might be a top 100 prospect this offseason. 

[Sports Guy]

Btw, another name you could add to this is Mountcastle. I know things don’t look great now but teams can see his statcast numbers, see that he has a lot of power and isn’t that expensive. He could have some value in a trade as well.

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Hays or Santander are tougher sells but Urias is not. They have plenty of IFers ready to help now.

The thing about Urias is the insurance he provides. Really like having him for that reason.

I just don’t ever remember contenders, outside of TB, trading away MLB pieces at the deadline. That weren’t salary dumps. 

[deward]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think you are going to get anything close to quality unless Hall gets his velocity back.

 

They're not getting 2014-era Andrew Miller for him, at least not just for him, but I could see getting a rental equivalent to what they wanted Givens to be this year. Not sexy, but useful and needed. Alternatively, I could easily see him being an add-on to someone like Norby or Stowers to get something nicer.

[Es4M11]

I didn't see Mitch Keller on the list. I would be looking to try and pry him away from the Pirates. I would hope to be able to make a viable package trading one of Westburg or Ortiz, and two of Norby, Hall or Prieto. Plus throw in one or two lower tier prospects.

Mateo, maybe best to see what type of prospect the O's could get from the Dodgers.

Keep Hays, Urias, Frazier & Santander for the rest of this season.