Bowden: Top 100 guys on GMs minds for trades

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

Hays and Santander have been 2 of our top 4? Best most consistent bats on the season. I don't think you can rely on rookies with no MLB experience to step in and replace that right away.

And again, you are only looking at what is lost and what is gained. You can’t say we are worse without knowing what we get back.

 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

I doubt that it would be enough to make many people on here happy....

That’s because he’s very overrated by the fan base.

[RVAOsFan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

And again, you are only looking at what is lost and what is gained. You can’t say we are worse without knowing what we get back.

 

I cannot argue with that.  Infield depth just seems like the no brainer place of depth to trade from.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

49 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yes, Ryan Mountcastle and his production that has declined each year culminating in a .686 OPS this year has tremendous value.  I'm sure teams would value his statcast numbers and his power because when he's not striking out at balls 3 and 4, he might get lucky and run into a fastball sometime.

 

Renato Nunez got waived by Elias with a career 107 OPS+ as an Oriole and Mountcastle has a 109 OPS+ for his career.

Mountcastle’s performance has been declining each season since his rookie season. No team is trading anything of value to secure Mountcastle in a trade. 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I cannot argue with that.  Infield depth just seems like the no brainer place of depth to trade from.

It’s a no brainer from our side of things.

But if the other side needs OF/DH/1B help, they don’t care about our IF depth.

[Brooks The Great]

1 hour ago, Es4M11 said:

I didn't see Mitch Keller on the list. I would be looking to try and pry him away from the Pirates. I would hope to be able to make a viable package trading one of Westburg or Ortiz, and two of Norby, Hall or Prieto. Plus throw in one or two lower tier prospects.

Mateo, maybe best to see what type of prospect the O's could get from the Dodgers.

Keep Hays, Urias, Frazier & Santander for the rest of this season.

Frazier is worthless. I would rather DFA him than keep him if he can't be traded. Mateo can be a good utility IF/pinch runner off the bench if Mateo himself isn't traded. 

With Ortiz and Westburg - and Urias if he's kept through the deadline - Frazier is completely unnecessary. I'd rather have Prieto off the bench than Frazier.

[RVAOsFan]

1 minute ago, Brooks The Great said:

Frazier is worthless. I would rather DFA him than keep him if he can't be traded. Mateo can be a good utility IF/pinch runner off the bench if Mateo himself isn't traded. 

With Ortiz and Westburg - and Urias if he's kept through the deadline - Frazier is completely unnecessary. I'd rather have Prieto off the bench than Frazier.

I think removing Frazier certainly helps unclog things and I am on board with it.  Elias just seems to love that LH bat at 2B, he stuck with Odor last year.  

[Brooks The Great]

6 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I think removing Frazier certainly helps unclog things and I am on board with it.  Elias just seems to love that LH bat at 2B, he stuck with Odor last year.  

I still hate how Elias stuck with Odor last season - Westburg should have been brought up at the same time Gunnar was to replace Odor and the O's very possibly would have made the playoffs with that one change. But I really do think this year is a different scenario since there are two players clearly ready to replace Frazier and Mateo, with Ortiz literally already on the roster. This year the team is also in a much better spot to make the playoffs and is on pace to do so - last year the team was always on the outside looking in.

I think Elias was more enamored with extra years of Westburg than a LH bat - after all, what good is a LH bat if the bat sucks, as was the case with Odor and is the case with Frazier? Well, now Elias has maximum control over service time for Westburg now that the Super 2 threshhold has been/should be passed. It's time.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Brooks The Great

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Hall clearly has decreased value but doesn’t mean he has no value and doesn’t mean he can’t be a piece in a deal.

A guy like Haskin could definitely be one of the pieces in a deal for a rental or a reliever. People are acting like these teams get top prospects for rentals and role players. That largely doesn’t happen. They get secondary pieces that perhaps have some upside.

Thats just the way it is.

Look at last years deadline. You don’t see a lot of top level prospects dealt in trades.

https://www.mlb.com/news/every-2022-mlb-trade-deadline-deal

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.  Haskin has a K% wart hanging off his lower lip and a Babip-regression hunched back.  And Hall's velo/command issues are the shrieking eels that grow louder when they're about to feed on human flesh.

I could word this next piece like "People are acting like we can deal prospects that we don't like for players that will clearly be an MLB upgrade.  That largely doesn't happen unless you're willing to take second rate talent to begin with."  But I won't (but did).

Instead I'll word it like:  I look at that trade deadline link and see a bunch of whatever moves traded for no names.  And a few difference making deals that cost more than what I see as Haskin/Hall-level players.  There are a few that fall in the sweet spot of what I'd like to see.  

Mahle - Twins gave up too much.

Castillo - M's gave up a ton.

Iglesias - good deal for the Braves.  He was a buy-low at the time.  Who's that guy this year?

JoMo - good get for STL, this is the type of deal I hope for.  Both teams dealt from depth.

Robertson - Ben Brown reminds me of Povich.  Are we trading Povich for David Robertson?  Too rich for me.

Fulmer - I'd rather trade whatever equivalent of Gipson-Long for Fulmer.  Fulmer was solid last year and this type would smooth out the middle of the BP.

Bass/Pop - I think we could do something like a Groshans (something less than Norby/Prieto).  Bass was solid last year.  Similar to Fulmer above.

Lopez - Are we trading this year's equivalent of Povich/Cano/Nunez/Rojas for the equivalent of what Lopez was?  Too rich for me.

Will Smith - Is anyone willing to take one of our Odorizzi/5th starters for a BP piece?  Will it be as good as Will Smith?

Hader - What backend of the BP are we trading away to upgrade to a Hader?  

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.  Haskin has a K% wart hanging off his lower lip and a Babip-regression hunched back.  And Hall's velo/command issues are the shrieking eels that grow louder when they're about to feed on human flesh.

I could word this next piece like "People are acting like we can deal prospects that we don't like for players that will clearly be an MLB upgrade.  That largely doesn't happen unless you're willing to take second rate talent to begin with."  But I won't (but did).

Instead I'll word it like:  I look at that trade deadline link and see a bunch of whatever moves traded for no names.  And a few difference making deals that cost more than what I see as Haskin/Hall-level players.  There are a few that fall in the sweet spot of what I'd like to see.  

Mahle - Twins gave up too much.

Castillo - M's gave up a ton.

Iglesias - good deal for the Braves.  He was a buy-low at the time.  Who's that guy this year?

JoMo - good get for STL, this is the type of deal I hope for.  Both teams dealt from depth.

Robertson - Ben Brown reminds me of Povich.  Are we trading Povich for David Robertson?  Too rich for me.

Fulmer - I'd rather trade whatever equivalent of Gipson-Long for Fulmer.  Fulmer was solid last year and this type would smooth out the middle of the BP.

Bass/Pop - I think we could do something like a Groshans (something less than Norby/Prieto).  Bass was solid last year.  Similar to Fulmer above.

Lopez - Are we trading this year's equivalent of Povich/Cano/Nunez/Rojas for the equivalent of what Lopez was?  Too rich for me.

Will Smith - Is anyone willing to take one of our Odorizzi/5th starters for a BP piece?  Will it be as good as Will Smith?

Hader - What backend of the BP are we trading away to upgrade to a Hader?  

You know Cano wasn’t Cano last year and Povich was outside the top 20 of a mediocre farm system. What value did they really have?

The Reds definitely gave up a lot.

The guys I mentioned to trade unquestionably have as much or more value than a lot of guys from last year. 
 

 

[OriolesMagic83]

I'm sure a package of Frazier and Mateo will bring back a great reliever, probably one w/ a 5 ERA and a high walk rate.

[btdart20]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You know Cano wasn’t Cano last year and Povich was outside the top 20 of a mediocre farm system. What value did they really have?

The Reds definitely gave up a lot.

The guys I mentioned to trade unquestionably have as much or more value than a lot of guys from last year. 

Yeah, I get that.  Lopez had warts, concerns of regressin, and a short track record.  We saw it.  They saw it.  Are we looking for that?  It's too rich for those concerns IMO.

The guys you mentioned have as much or more value if you cherry-pick who you're comparing them to.  Yes, deals can be made.  Norby and Prieto are interesting.  Hall has a name.  Sounds like we disagree about Haskins.

[Camden_yardbird]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

And there are plenty of examples of guys who do help. Hell, defensively alone there are upgrades

I think you should bring them up this year but I don't think you can "replace bats".  Injury is on thing, but if you say trade Hays or Santander because you think Cowser can come up and provide comparable production, that's asanine. If they have any sort of learning curve you have cut off the ability to go back to the guys who had proven production.

Now this applies less so in the Westburg case where I think you can argue he could immediately replace Mateo.  That said, you need to see if you can any value for Mateo (I think they can) but teams aren't ready to deal yet.

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Yeah, I get that.  Lopez had warts, concerns of regressin, and a short track record.  We saw it.  They saw it.  Are we looking for that?  It's too rich for those concerns IMO.

The guys you mentioned have as much or more value if you cherry-pick who you're comparing them to.  Yes, deals can be made.  Norby and Prieto are interesting.  Hall has a name.  Sounds like we disagree about Haskins.

I don’t think Haskin is some great prospect but he’s a top 20ish prospect in a loaded system and has sOme potential 4th OFer capabilities. Players like him are traded a lot on deadline deals for relievers/role players/rentals.

No one is saying we are getting Pedro Martinez in his prime for these guys but for the players rumored to be available and guys who could help us?

Norby, Haskin and Stowers for Gioloto and maybe a reliever?  Are they really getting more than that? I have my doubts.

[webbrick2010]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I think the best prospect I would be willing to deal this deadline is Hall.

Hall, Stowers, Norby, Haskin, Mateo and Prieto are guys that likely have varying degrees of value that I would be looking to move. 

Hall isn't worth a full bag of balls, would be trading him for someone equally bad to hope for the change of scenery bump