There's NO "holding the Mayo"

[Jagwar]

22 hours ago, 86this said:

With Westburg on his way to Bal'more, is Mayo on his way to AAA?

I'm assuming it's a 1 for 1 swap with Ortiz being sent down. Or maybe Prieto gets more reps.  

[RarityFlaherty]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it is really hard to be as good at two positions as it is to be good at just one.

So I'd rather if, for the most part, they stayed at one position.

I also think that changing up the person playing first could make it more difficult for the other infielders.

I don’t really disagree with you there. I’m mostly thinking Kjerstad plays 1st most of the time, with Mayo in RF, and they alternate getting breaks at DH. But, ideally, both would have the versatility to play the other position if the other guy needed a day off. I definitely appreciate players having a little positional versatility to make it easier to optimize the lineup each game. But, I agree, when it comes to fielding, you usually want guys playing a certain position most of the time. 

[maybenxtyr]

23 hours ago, deward said:

Today I learned that wanting to see exciting young prospects get opportunities = whining. Noted.

Right...some people are ridiculous. If they don't want to discuss ways to better the team that they like to follow, they could just listen and read MASN stuff all day.

[25 Nuggets]

7 hours ago, Alasdaire said:

The question with Coby is whether he can stick at a position where his plus (arguably plus plus) arm can be utilized.

Of course, the logical spot is the hot corner. And if he was a member of many other franchises, he would likely be brought up as a 3B and only moved off if he couldn't handle it. But with the O's, it feels almost like an inevitability that he's not going to be on the left side of the infield given the bevy of talent they have there.

Ideally he would be quick enough to play a corner outfield spot so that the arm could serve as a deterrent if nothing else. But the O's haven't tried him there at all. They've been putting him at 1B occasionally, which is fine I suppose, but it would feel like settling given his arm strength.

If his best value is at 3B, then it makes him a prime trade candidate as a prospect.  He's a top 100 prospect now; he can net somebody significant.

[now]

1 hour ago, 25 Nuggets said:

If his best value is at 3B, then it makes him a prime trade candidate as a prospect.  He's a top 100 prospect now; he can net somebody significant.

Positional projections aside, this brings up the $64 million dollar question. Do you trade when a player's prospect stock is peaking, or do you wait to establish some MLB competency (for your own team or further trade value)--with the risk that the adjustment period may tarnish that peak value?

 

[Alasdaire]

1 hour ago, 25 Nuggets said:

If his best value is at 3B, then it makes him a prime trade candidate as a prospect.  He's a top 100 prospect now; he can net somebody significant.

A 21-year-old at AA with the highest OPS out of any elite (top-100) prospect in baseball is literally one of the most prized possessions in the sport. How are you going to recover that value? By trading for an "ace?"

Surely no one would suggest we trade Coby Mayo for a reliever or another bat. So to be commensurate value, the return would need to be an already elite starter (TINSTAPP) who has years of control left. And only losing teams would consider that. How big is that pool? Even assuming you find that guy and the other team is willing, are you prepared to forfeit the years worth of in-house intel you have on Coby Mayo and years worth of cheap production in exchange for an outsider who likely only has a year and a half before you have to give him a bag, and who plays a position that is notoriously prone to catastrophic injury?

It doesn't feel that absurd to analogize this to trading Manny in 2011. No one would have considered that then because we weren't spoiled like we are now and still cherished the guys who were coming up. But the point is that the O's were on the cusp of breaking out and could have convinced themselves they needed a guy to anchor the rotation. If you look at the all-star game pitchers in 2010/2011, a good portion were old and/or untouchable guys like Roy Halladay and Jon Lester who you wouldn't trade for. And for the other big portion of pitchers, those years were the highlight of their careers. There was a guy or two like Gio Gonzalez who would have gone on to post a few more seasons of a sub-4.00 ERA, but remember you're comparing that to Manny Machado. If it was hard to stomach Manny leaving with a few months left in his final year, imagine drafting and developing him to never see him wear our colors because we traded for Trevor Cahill to still not win a world series.

I guess I get the thought process that we need more reliable starting pitching if we're going to go all the way. And I get thinking that we have no alternative but to trade for that. But for one, I don't think the rest of the team is ready yet to push all of our chips in. And I especially don't understand how people can so casually suggest willingly giving up special players who we have seen since they were teenagers. I like our guys.

[MCO'sFan]

There is no rush to trade MAyo or really any other prospect. We do have a lot of promising prospects but we are not at a point where the roster crunch is such that we are forced to trade them. Mayo is only 21 and has to be added to the 40 man this off season (I think) and then he has three option years. So, worst case scenario is he finishes this year at AA and maybe even starts next year there. Then plays 24 and starts 25 at AAA. Gunner is in his 4th year then and may be traded for prospects. I don't see the O's signing these guys long term. I think the plan is to turn most if not all of them into multiple prospects before they reach FA. In order to do that, you need to be like the Rays and have guys like Mayo in AAA to replace them. 

[Alasdaire]

3 hours ago, MCO'sFan said:

There is no rush to trade MAyo or really any other prospect. We do have a lot of promising prospects but we are not at a point where the roster crunch is such that we are forced to trade them. Mayo is only 21 and has to be added to the 40 man this off season (I think) and then he has three option years. So, worst case scenario is he finishes this year at AA and maybe even starts next year there. Then plays 24 and starts 25 at AAA. Gunner is in his 4th year then and may be traded for prospects. I don't see the O's signing these guys long term. I think the plan is to turn most if not all of them into multiple prospects before they reach FA. In order to do that, you need to be like the Rays and have guys like Mayo in AAA to replace them. 

This is more palatable to me. If a guy is reaching the end of his contract and either you've tried to sign him and can't come to terms or there's no sense in signing him because you stink, then fine, trade him.

I get that trades are very common in baseball and smaller-budget franchises especially need to rely on them. But it's always weird to me how flippant baseball fans, not just O's fans or people on OH, are about getting rid of their own guys. Even now, players who are lifelong O's to this point like Hays/Mountcastle or even Santander/Urias etc. are waved off as cannon fodder. How does it look to other players when the guys who had to grind through the down years and try to be clubhouse leaders are shipped off on the cusp of contention?

It would be like wanting the Ravens to trade a player we "don't need" like Kyle Hamilton (Mayo) or a lifer like Jimmy Smith (Hays). Part of what makes being a Ravens fan great is that the team is almost entirely composed of our own guys who take pride in Ravens culture.

Some people talk about not wanting to be the Rays, but being the Oakland A's scares me more. Constantly selling off parts to the point that your franchise is just an assembly line/mercenary army. And you still don't have a ring. And you're moving out of town.

 

 

[sportsfan8703]

11 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:

If his best value is at 3B, then it makes him a prime trade candidate as a prospect.  He's a top 100 prospect now; he can net somebody significant.

He’s also got hit over our wall type power as a RH bat. That’s rare.  Mayo is looking like 1B/RF/DH. That’s exactly what we need. However, I think we keep Mayo playing 3B through this season just in case someone blows us away in a trade. If he stays, then he should transition to 1B/RF next season. 

[G54377]

I think Mayo effectively takes Santander's spot/role. 

[MCO'sFan]

7 hours ago, Alasdaire said:

This is more palatable to me. If a guy is reaching the end of his contract and either you've tried to sign him and can't come to terms or there's no sense in signing him because you stink, then fine, trade him.

I get that trades are very common in baseball and smaller-budget franchises especially need to rely on them. But it's always weird to me how flippant baseball fans, not just O's fans or people on OH, are about getting rid of their own guys. Even now, players who are lifelong O's to this point like Hays/Mountcastle or even Santander/Urias etc. are waved off as cannon fodder. How does it look to other players when the guys who had to grind through the down years and try to be clubhouse leaders are shipped off on the cusp of contention?

It would be like wanting the Ravens to trade a player we "don't need" like Kyle Hamilton (Mayo) or a lifer like Jimmy Smith (Hays). Part of what makes being a Ravens fan great is that the team is almost entirely composed of our own guys who take pride in Ravens culture.

Some people talk about not wanting to be the Rays, but being the Oakland A's scares me more. Constantly selling off parts to the point that your franchise is just an assembly line/mercenary army. And you still don't have a ring. And you're moving out of town.

 

 

The game changed many years ago. Players and teams have no loyalty (not saying they should). Why would I as a fan be the only one to have loyalty? I want the best possible team year in and year out. For the O’s unfortunately, that means trading some good players before they reach FA. That’s the best way to stay competitive for extended periods of time. Not doing that is how you become the A’s or should I say the 2017-2021 Orioles. 

[25 Nuggets]

17 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

He’s also got hit over our wall type power as a RH bat. That’s rare.  Mayo is looking like 1B/RF/DH. That’s exactly what we need. However, I think we keep Mayo playing 3B through this season just in case someone blows us away in a trade. If he stays, then he should transition to 1B/RF next season. 

17 hours ago, G54377 said:

I think Mayo effectively takes Santander's spot/role. 

That's fine too; they'll just have to live with what Alasdaire called "possibly a plus plus arm" playing 1B/DH half the time.

And no I'm not particularly emotionally attached to prospects compared to the major leaguers, most of which I know will not be extended because the team will keep payroll low.  I'm not looking forward to losing Santander, much less Rutschman and/or Henderson.

[George Zuverink]

2 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:

That's fine too; they'll just have to live with what Alasdaire called "possibly a plus plus arm" playing 1B/DH half the time.

 

Can he pitch? Let’s turn him into a home grown Ohtani! 

[Three Run Homer]

I don't understand why he hasn't been tried in RF yet.  Even if the O's believe that his trade value is higher if he is seen as a 3B, aren't there enough scouting reports on him as a 3B already to establish  that he can play the position?   It seems unlikely that the O's are committed to trading him, and it seems equally unlikely that he would factor in as a 3B for the O's given Henderson and Holliday's presence in the organization.  So why not get him started on learning RF, to increase his potential value as an Oriole?  

[24fps]

2 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I don't understand why he hasn't been tried in RF yet.  Even if the O's believe that his trade value is higher if he is seen as a 3B, aren't there enough scouting reports on him as a 3B already to establish  that he can play the position?   It seems unlikely that the O's are committed to trading him, and it seems equally unlikely that he would factor in as a 3B for the O's given Henderson and Holliday's presence in the organization.  So why not get him started on learning RF, to increase his potential value as an Oriole?  

For the last two years, most of Kjerstad's OF starts have overwhelming been in RF so until recently Mayo's been blocked.  FWIW I think that as long as Mayo is at Bowie, he should get a tryout in RF and Kjerstad's future minor league games should focus on 1B.