Snell/Hader package

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Malike said:

Probably the biggest need we have right now. The middle relief corps are a shambles and unreliable as hell.

And come playoff time, you really only use 4 -5 relievers anyway, at least in big spots. We have 3 that you feel good about right now. Adding a top BP arm gives you a chance to shorten the game. Same type of thing we had in 2014, especially after getting Miller.

[HandsomeQuack]

9 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

By the way, I have asked several posters for clarification and/or insight regarding what "giving up/throwing the farm" at a player means and not a single one has provided ONE SINGLE scenario where we would have to "give up the farm" in a trade. What would "throwing the farm" at Rodriguez realistically look like?

What would you personally give up for E-Rod? Let's assume he pitches to around a 3.15 ERA for the next month (in line with his current FIP).

I assume "give up the farm" means one of a) trading Holliday, Cowser, or Grayson, or b) giving up a package of 3+ Top 100-ish guys. But there is no one on the market that is worthy of that return.

[SteveA]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

While I agree that Snell isn’t a guy who goes deep in games, he would definitely be our best starter going into Oct unless GRod really starts to turn it up.

It’s not really fair to comp him to what we have.

Bradish currently has a lower FIP, WHIP, HR/9, and BB/9 than Snell, and a higher SO/W ratio.

But I still agree Snell would help us in a big way.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, HandsomeQuack said:

What would you personally give up for E-Rod? Let's assume he pitches to around a 3.15 ERA for the next month (in line with his current FIP).

I assume "give up the farm" means one of a) trading Holliday, Cowser, or Grayson, or b) giving up a package of 3+ Top 100-ish guys. But there is no one on the market that is worthy of that return.

Okay let me see if I understand. So, the 3.15 for the next month averaged in with the first 11 starts of 2.13 ERA? That's an ERA in the mid 2's correct?

He's coming off of an injury and has an opt-out, so there is no way the Tigers would ask for Holliday THE NUMBER ONE PROSPECT IN THE SPORT or Cowser a top 15/20ish prospect or Grayson a former top 5 prospect for a guy with the profile of Eduardo Rodriguez.

Let me put it to you like this, the Angles wouldn't ask for or receive Jackson Holliday if they made Ohtani avaiable. 

Are you just throwing stuff out there for farts and giggles or are you seriously suggesting that the Tigers would/could ask for or get 3 top 100 prospect for Eduardo Rodriguez? Before this season the Marlins could have gotten that for Sandy Alcantara, but for 2 months (or heck for 2 years) of Eduardo Rodruguez???

I have to imagine this is a joke...lol

Now seriously speaking, I would be willing to part with Norby/Ortiz and Stowers/Prieto (or comparable players) for Eduardo Rodriguez. They get a top 100+ for a guy who won't be with them next year and probably won't be with us. 

[clapdiddy]

I think I'd be more inclined to go after JUST Hader at this point, realizing that it may cost a premium.   Having a bullpen with Hader/Bautista/Cano/Coulombe would be tough to beat, if they continue to produce as they are.   Cano/Coulombe are still wildcards to me.

[SemperFi]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

I don't think we need a bonafide ace to compete in the playoffs. You need strong middle relief. Our pitchers have done a very good job of keeping us in games until we get to middle relief. If you're able to shorten the game by having reliable relievers you do not need 7 innings out of your starters to win in the playoffs.

I agree with you and it is much more cost effective IF it works.  This may be the strategy Elias has decided upon given their inability to sign a FA starter (notwithstanding that ridiculous wall that was alleged to attract FA's)!! 

[HandsomeQuack]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Are you just throwing stuff out there for farts and giggles or are you seriously suggesting that the Tigers would/could ask for or get 3 top 100 prospect for Eduardo Rodriguez? Before this season the Marlins could have gotten that for Sandy Alcantara, but for 2 months (or heck for 2 years) of Eduardo Rodruguez???

No, I was not suggesting that E-Rod is worthy of "the farm," nor did I meant to suggest that you were saying that he is. My two paragraphs were unrelated to each other.

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Now seriously speaking, I would be willing to part with Norby/Ortiz and Stowers/Prieto (or comparable players) for Eduardo Rodriguez. They get a top 100+ for a guy who won't be with them next year and probably won't be with us. 

I see, that would be pretty reasonable. It's hard to project any of those guys having long-term roles at this point (particularly Prieto and Norby), so it is less about losing their value to the team and more about evaluating the opportunity cost of trading them for E-Rod versus for someone else. Not saying I would be "banging the drum" for that deal but I would give ME the benefit of the doubt if he did it.

[Dunk35]

2 hours ago, Malike said:

I'm not sure how to make that deal work. They are so stacked for an awful long time at 3B, SS, LF, RF, they have a good young 2B. I'm just not sure what we offer that would make them give up two pitchers.

Probably something like Basallo tbh. 

[waroriole]

Hader would be a big get for a playoff run. But, have to imagine the cost to obtain him will be prohibitive. At least for me. 

[TopGunnar]

If this team trades Kjersted or Mayo for anybody other than a bonafide ace with multiple years left on his contract I will be extremely disappointed.

[Winter]

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion but until proven otherwise im ready for the usual obtained players like Rich Hill & Sam Long for a midlevel/project prospects, there is no sign that Elias wants to trade his line of prospects that go with what appears to be his plan of long term success for a few years of dart throw runs just yet, will it happen eventually probably but i dont see it this year. NOW if your talking about getting a top rotation arm for multiple years then i can see it happening. 

Just DONT follow the Blue Jays model for long-term success! Follow the Astros(without the drum beats). 

[Bemorewins]

18 minutes ago, TopGunnar said:

If this team trades Kjersted or Mayo for anybody other than a bonafide ace with multiple years left on his contract I will be extremely disappointed.

Alcantara was such the pitcher you describe, but he has been terrible this year. Those type of guys ("bonafide ace with multiple years left on his contract") rarely come available and I imagine now even less so with the additional wildcards that are designed to keep most teams in it for most of the year. Even with this bad season from Alcantara, I would have to consider it because it would be be buying low, his contract is SO team friendly and we know that he has Cy Young ability when he's right. 

[NCRaven]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s a concern for sure.

May need a third team involved.

Don't you always! 

 

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Winter said:

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion but until proven otherwise im ready for the usual obtained players like Rich Hill & Sam Long for a midlevel/project prospects, there is no sign that Elias wants to trade his line of prospects that go with what appears to be his plan of long term success for a few years of dart throw runs just yet, will it happen eventually probably but i dont see it this year. NOW if your talking about getting a top rotation arm for multiple years then i can see it happening. 

Just DONT follow the Blue Jays model for long-term success! Follow the Astros(without the drum beats). 

I see Elias's strategy for long term success inclusive of the acquisition of difference making starting pitching. He hasn't drafted OR developed ANY. Whether, this year, next, year or any other year, we are going to need that kind of piece to have reasonable odds for postseason success. Otherwise, we will be going into every October with long odds.

I know some fans don't think that starting pitching matters much, but the HOU Astros and ATL Braves would beg to disagree. Oh and the Giants dynasty before them says hello. Don't forget about the long stretches of success of the Dodgers and Rays too. Starting pitching ALWAYS matters in the postseason! 

Oh and I know about that one time when the Royals were able to do it a different way. We could shoot to be the exception to the rule and how that works out. But with an overabundance of positional organizational talent, there is no need to IMO.

[AnythingO's]

I see some talk about ERod, he has his first rehab start Thursday which is just about a month from his injury (May 29 to IL). If the pulley was ruptured the recovery would have been 6-8 weeks supposedly. Now they project his return July 9 to MLB. DET plays MIN this weekend so we will see how that goes re: selling or going for it. I have been suggesting ERod since the offseason as a trade candidate. He has 3/$49M on his contract and an optout he would likely exercise. As a rental coming off injury DET won't get much. Maybe 1-2 of Norby, Stowers, Prieto, Vavra and Irvin as a replacement SP. If ERod is successful here, maybe we could renegotiate and add $5M to the current contract so AAV of $18M. Maybe add an option year @$20M. Is ERod going to get more than 3/$54M or 4/$74M even in this market? Who is a comp to ERod from last offseason and what did they get? He should be good for 150 innings and ERA 3.5-4.0 over ages 31-33/34