Need a little stat help here

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Baltimorecuse said:

No, I'm not.  I really don't understand a 41 WAR.  Because you can't answer, you call it trolling.  

Nice try.

Can you read?

The part where you said "Mateo is better" was trolling.

I completely and totally believe you when you say you don't understand WAR.

BTW 41 WAR over 18 seasons is barely above league average performance, so he needed to be one of the all time greats on defense to be a slightly above average player.

 

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Baltimorecuse said:

No, I'm not.  I really don't understand a 41 WAR.  Because you can't answer, you call it trolling.  

Nice try.

Clearly you don't understand, yet you've had many people explain it to you. 

So either you're being intentionally obtuse or trolling at this point.  You seemed to want to have an honest conversation about Belanger's career value but don't want to engage anyone in an honest conversation.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

What do you mean 41 times better?  Do you mean is career dWAR is 41 above the average shortstop?  If so that doesn't mean he's 41 times better -- it means that defensively he is valued at 41 wins more than the average shortstop over his entire career.  And he played for about 18 seasons, which is another reason it's so high.  

You do raise an interesting point about WAR and one of the confusing things about it.  I'm no stats expert by any means, but I think WAR loses its value when comparing players from different eras.  Belanger's WAR is really relevant against other players of his era.  I doubt WAR really has much value or meaning when comparing a player's skills from 4 or 5 decades ago to one from today.  I think it's designed to measure players against others in their own era -- not all eras.

Infield defense was more important when he played since so many more balls were put into play and of that number a greater percentage were ground balls and line drives.

What's the average K rate during the years he played?

[ArtVanDelay]

14 minutes ago, Baltimorecuse said:

I find it impossible to believe he was 41 times better defensively than the average shortstop.  

Where on Earth did you pull that from?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, ArtVanDelay said:

Where on Earth did you pull that from?

I'm guessing his career WAR.

[Baltimorecuse]

7 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Where on Earth did you pull that from?

It's in Baseball Reference.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belanma01.shtml

Am I mistaken on what  WAR means

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Baltimorecuse said:

It's in Baseball Reference.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belanma01.shtml

Am I mistaken on what  WAR means

I think we have a sticky for the stat clueless.

Give me a minute, it's been a while since someone tried to engage from a position of near total ignorance.

[Baltimorecuse]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm guessing his career WAR.

That's my question.  Usually career numbers are stated as an average.  Is this all his WARs combined?  

[Baltimorecuse]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I think we have a sticky for the stat clueless.

Give me a minute, it's been a while since someone tried to engage from a position of near total ignorance.

Matched only by your ignorance of closely held corporations.  

[foxfield]

51 minutes ago, Baltimorecuse said:

Yeah, I did.  Mateo is easily as good.  

The point you are missing, is that Mark Belanger was that good for 18 years.  IF Mateo does what he did last year for 17 more years....he would be considered great.

Of course still not HOF

Edited July 14, 2023 by foxfield

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Baltimorecuse said:

That's my question.  Usually career numbers are stated as an average.  Is this all his WARs combined?  

Can't find the Hangout thread for some reason.

Here is an ELI5 definition.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/advanced-stats/wins-above-replacement

Quote

WAR measures a player's value in all facets of the game by deciphering how many more wins he's worth than a replacement-level player at his same position (e.g., a Minor League replacement or a readily available fill-in free agent).

For example, if a shortstop and a first baseman offer the same overall production (on offense, defense and the basepaths), the shortstop will have a better WAR because his position sees a lower level of production from replacement-level players.

 

[Baltimorecuse]

1 minute ago, foxfield said:

The point you are missing, is that Mark Belanger was that good for 18 years.  IF Mateo does what he did last year....he would be considered great.

Of course still not HOF

I don't agree.  Shortstops have to hit now.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Baltimorecuse said:

I don't agree.  Shortstops have to hit now.  

Not relative to first basemen they don't.

[Baltimorecuse]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Can you read?

The part where you said "Mateo is better" was trolling.

I completely and totally believe you when you say you don't understand WAR.

BTW 41 WAR over 18 seasons is barely above league average performance, so he needed to be one of the all time greats on defense to be a slightly above average player.

 

So it's 41/18.  That was the question.  Mateo v Belanger's fielding skills are purely subjective.  

[Conway12]

8 minutes ago, Baltimorecuse said:

That's my question.  Usually career numbers are stated as an average.  Is this all his WARs combined?  

Yes. It's all of his WAR combined. He averaged 2.3ish WAR for per season for 18 years.