Cowser Vs Kjerstad

[waroriole]

I said Kjerstad but it’s very close. I don’t see a controllable TOR SP available to include either. 

[EddeeEddee]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If it is for anyone, they shouldn’t be allowed to post here.

[George Zuverink]

7 hours ago, Gurgi said:

Yeah but I aint in the mood to try to mentally figure out which first round pick I would rather keep if I had to trade one.  Its a made up situation.  Its pointless.  I would rather keep both.  

And now Cowser has a tiny sample size and people will be screaming to keep Kjerstad.  LOL   Its okay if your bored today and have nothing to think about then this.  Not quite debating imaginary trades but almost. 

Then why answer at all?

[Frobby]

It’s a very difficult choice, as virtually everyone has said.  And I must say, with all humility, that I have no idea which player’s offensive skills will translate better to the major leagues.   So whoever I pick has a 50/50 chance to be the wrong choice.  

My initial thought was to pick Cowser because I think his defensive ceiling and floor are higher.  But i have to say, I’m super impressed with how quickly Kjerstad has gotten back on track after missing all that time with serious health problems.  So, I’m gonna go with Kjerstad, by a hair.   

If we trade either one, we’d better get a lot in return. 

 

[emmett16]

I’d like to know what size bat Kjerstad uses.  It looks like a 35” and he whips it around like a toothpick.  I think his bat is going to make a major impact.  He is a lot faster than I thought and has a great arm. That’s a lot of tools you can’t teach.   I’m extremely high on Cowser, but what we’ve seen from HK since going to AFL is incredible.  I really hope the future is Cowser in LF and HK in RF. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by emmett16

[Ohfan67]

7 hours ago, sevastras said:

I believe “mental masturbation” is the term you are looking for. 

Welcome to the internet. 

[Sanfran327]

7 hours ago, johnrambo said:

Everybody is touchable for the right price. I mean if the Red Sox offered prime Pedro Martinez for Adley or Holliday you would be a fool to turn that down. Except the Red Sox would never offer that.  I would in fact trade either Kjerstad or Cowser for a controllable TOR Starter. Problem is we aren't getting that with either of those guys as the centerpiece. You would likely have to trade Holliday and another top prospect, if not 2 other top prospects for a controllable TOR starter. 

I'm glad you said all of that to agree with the final sentence of my post. Everyone likes a little validation every now and then.

[24fps]

Is the presumed need for a "TOR" starter throwing this discussion into the twilight zone?  Last winter the Twins acquired Pablo Lopez and Jose Salas and Byron Chourio for Luis Arraez alone.  Arraez is certainly a solid player albeit with no power - 131 wRC+ in 2022.  Right now the O's rough statistical equivalent for that deal would be Austin Hays at 129 wRC+ vs 131 for Arraez at the time of his trade. 

Maybe wild-eyed claims of Holliday and Kjerstad and John Angelos' first born all being needed for a nonexistent prime Pedro Martinez or Randy Johnson entirely misses the point.  It's the Pablo Lopezes of the world that should be the focus and would much more the Orioles' speed anyway IMO. 

Is such a pitcher available now?  I don't know, but Kjerstad or Cowser as a centerpiece should be plenty enough to get a deal like that rolling before the start of 2024 and would be a legit use of that kind of asset.

[EddeeEddee]

11 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Is the presumed need for a "TOR" starter throwing this discussion into the twilight zone?  Last winter the Twins acquired Pablo Lopez and Jose Salas and Byron Chourio for Luis Arraez alone.  Arraez is certainly a solid player albeit with no power - 131 wRC+ in 2022.  Right now the O's rough statistical equivalent for that deal would be Austin Hays at 129 wRC+ vs 131 for Arraez at the time of his trade. 

Maybe wild-eyed claims of Holliday and Kjerstad and John Angelos' first born all being needed for a nonexistent prime Pedro Martinez or Randy Johnson entirely misses the point.  It's the Pablo Lopezes of the world that should be the focus and would much more the Orioles' speed anyway IMO. 

Is such a pitcher available now?  I don't know, but Kjerstad or Cowser as a centerpiece should be plenty enough to get a deal like that rolling before the start of 2024 and would be a legit use of that kind of asset.

From the sound of things around here I think a number of people would rather see Hays traded rather than Cowser and Kjerstad.

Also, I don't think people see Austin Hays as being in the same tier as Arraez.  Maybe by some metrics, but others such as WAR, dWAR and OPS+ give a strong advantage to Arraez.  Hays is performing pretty far beyond his pre-2023 numbers (with the exception of a very limited strong showing in 2019).  And even if they do see Hays as a comparison to Arraez, all things being equal why wouldn't the trade partner just demand Hays + Cowser or Kjerstad -- because Hays probably has neither the consistency nor the defense to bring back -- on his own -- a strong starting pitcher with multi years under control.

Also, as good as Pablo Lopez is, perhaps most see him as around a #3 starter (though maybe not even that this season).

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, waroriole said:

I said Kjerstad but it’s very close. I don’t see a controllable TOR SP available to include either. 

Miller, Gilbert or Woo 

[24fps]

5 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

From the sound of things around here I think a number of people would rather see Hays traded rather than Cowser and Kjerstad.

Also, I don't think people see Austin Hays as being in the same tier as Arraez.  Maybe by some metrics, but others such as WAR, dWAR and OPS+ give a strong advantage to Arraez.  Hays is performing pretty far beyond his pre-2023 numbers (with the exception of a very limited strong showing in 2019).  And even if they do see Hays as a comparison to Arraez, all things being equal why wouldn't the trade partner just demand Hays + Cowser or Kjerstad -- because Hays probably has neither the consistency nor the defense to bring back -- on his own -- a strong starting pitcher with multi years under control.

Also, as good as Pablo Lopez is, perhaps most see him as around a #3 starter (though maybe not even that this season).

My goal wasn't to tee up trade idea for debate, but more to ask for a little perspective.  I agree that Hays alone wouldn't be enough to equal the Twins trade, but that's not the real point.  The O's need solid, controllable starting pitching and if they're smart about it, they should be able to get enough without gutting the cream of the minor league system.

All the noise about a TOR starter has devolved into a complete straw man IMO.

[George Zuverink]

If it is truly a Sophie’s Choice for a  difference making starter we can lock up for at least two years I’d pick Cowser.   For me it’s a roster management issue. I’m thinking  Coby Mayo could provide what Kjerstad  would offensively and defensively, but the potential replacements for Cowser aren’t as impressive.

[Sports Guy]

13 hours ago, 24fps said:

Is the presumed need for a "TOR" starter throwing this discussion into the twilight zone?  Last winter the Twins acquired Pablo Lopez and Jose Salas and Byron Chourio for Luis Arraez alone.  Arraez is certainly a solid player albeit with no power - 131 wRC+ in 2022.  Right now the O's rough statistical equivalent for that deal would be Austin Hays at 129 wRC+ vs 131 for Arraez at the time of his trade. 

Maybe wild-eyed claims of Holliday and Kjerstad and John Angelos' first born all being needed for a nonexistent prime Pedro Martinez or Randy Johnson entirely misses the point.  It's the Pablo Lopezes of the world that should be the focus and would much more the Orioles' speed anyway IMO. 

Is such a pitcher available now?  I don't know, but Kjerstad or Cowser as a centerpiece should be plenty enough to get a deal like that rolling before the start of 2024 and would be a legit use of that kind of asset.

It would likely be one of the Seattle pitchers.

Would they want Cowser for Miller or Woo?  Would they take Santander/Hays and Urias?

Miller or Woo are probably on an innings restriction and may not be much of a rotation help this year but they may contribute in the pen and be rotation focal points moving forward.

 

[RZNJ]

The Mariners want immediate offensive help.   I doubt that a Cowser is what they are looking for in a playoff push.  Sounds like they want something more reliable for the present.   So a young pitching for a Goldschmidt would make a ton of sense for them and the Cardinals both.