Our pitching doesn't get enough respect

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Not sure where to find the team splits but feels like we are overall on an upward trajectory. Bradish and Kremer got blown up a bunch early but both have been very good. The Grayson/Irvin spot was bad early but has been good since Irvin came back. Wells has slipped a bit but overall I feel better about the rotation now than in April-May. I can turn the game on after dinner and we are usually in the game even if I missed the beginning.

This is not true. Bradish has had exactly TWO starts where he has given up 4 runs or more. He has had 1 bad start all season (against Boston who has crushed him consistently in his brief ML career). Kremer on the other hand, has had SEVEN such starts. To put them in the same category of effectiveness for the duration of the season is VERY inaccurate. 

Also, Grayson Rodriguez is amongst the Major League leaders in OPS against. Again, saying that he was bad early is untrue. For the most part, he has been bad, thus the demotion for part of the season.

Then you talk about Wells "slipping a bit". Do you mean ONE bad start in which the Orioles decided to mess with his regular routine and rhythm? Because other wise, before that he had given up 2 ERs or less in his prior 8 starts. 

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Seeing how nicely that Kyle Bradish has been developing (and Dean Kremer too, to a far lesser extent), I have to wonder how long it is before we can stop bemoaning that our coaching staff doesn't know how to develop pitchers. Felix Bautista and Yennier Cano are pitchers they helped to develop too. Not as much Cano because the Twins should be given credit for him (and Danny Coulombe too), but they helped him over the offseason and early in the season to make the tweaks that has helped him to be this good in 2023.

One step at a time. I think the pitching staff is trending in the right direction, it's just taking longer than we had hoped.

I'd like to see Grayson take a big positive step in the right direction this afternoon.

My concern with the development of our pitching goes along with fans clamoring for a 'Raysian' approach to team building and spending. The secret sauce to the Rays success has always been their ability to continuously develop and reproduce elite Major League pitching. If we cannot do that, then trying to copy them will not produce the results that they have gotten. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Moshagge3 said:

They are 5th in the AL and 9th in MLB in FIP, though.

I didn’t know that.  I’m not a huge believer in FIP, but hopefully that means they’ll do a little better ERA-wise the remainder of the year.  

[Aristotelian]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

This is not true. Bradish has had exactly TWO starts where he has given up 4 runs or more. He has had 1 bad start all season (against Boston who has crushed him consistently in his brief ML career). Kremer on the other hand, has had SEVEN such starts. To put them in the same category of effectiveness for the duration of the season is VERY inaccurate. 

Also, Grayson Rodriguez is amongst the Major League leaders in OPS against. Again, saying that he was bad early is untrue. For the most part, he has been bad, thus the demotion for part of the season.

Then you talk about Wells "slipping a bit". Do you mean ONE bad start in which the Orioles decided to mess with his regular routine and rhythm? Because other wise, before that he had given up 2 ERs or less in his prior 8 starts. 

Bradish has obviously been better than Kremer overall. Both had their worst starts early. Kremer's ERA dropped steadily from 6.67 in April down to 4.50 on June 24. He has been a mixed bag since then, now at 4.80. Back of napkin I would guess he's in the low 4's since April. I guess "very good" is an overstatement there. 

Grayson has only had one start since coming back and it was solid. Not sure what you are referring to about him being bad recently.

Irvin was good in that spot since June 10, with ERA dropping from 10.38 to 5.50.

Yes, Wells has had one bad start. I would count that as a slip. Overall he has been very good which is consistent with my overall point that the rotation is trending in a positive direction with a disproportionate amount of damage done in April. 

 

[Billy F-Face3]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

My concern with the development of our pitching goes along with fans clamoring for a 'Raysian' approach to team building and spending. The secret sauce to the Rays success has always been their ability to continuously develop and reproduce elite Major League pitching. If we cannot do that, then trying to copy them will not produce the results that they have gotten. 

Raysian?

Tampa also sees alot of their pitchers injured and needing Tommy John surgery. It's a rather unusually large number of their pitchers. Could be something to do with how they manage them.

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Bradish has obviously been better than Kremer overall. Both had their worst starts early. Kremer's ERA dropped steadily from 6.67 in April down to 4.50 on June 24. He has been a mixed bag since then, now at 4.80. Back of napkin I would guess he's in the low 4's since April. I guess "very good" is an overstatement there. 

Grayson has only had one start since coming back and it was solid. Not sure what you are referring to about him being bad recently.

Irvin was good in that spot since June 10, with ERA dropping from 10.38 to 5.50.

Yes, Wells has had one bad start. I would count that as a slip. Overall he has been very good which is consistent with my overall point that the rotation is trending in a positive direction with a disproportionate amount of damage done in April. 

 

Grayson hasn't been bad recently. I never stated such. He has not been good for the duration of his time in the big leagues this season. Of his 11 starts only 5 have yielded 3 runs or less and 4 have yielded 5 runs or greater.

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Raysian?

Tampa also sees alot of their pitchers injured and needing Tommy John surgery. It's a rather unusually large number of their pitchers. Could be something to do with how they manage them.

Raysian is a term that I have heard thrown around on this board by some and in other spaces of Orioles discussion.

Yes, everything that you say is true, Baz one of their top young pitching talents is hurt right now and Johnson who we got from them last year in a trade is hurt, so is Rasmussen.

But they have an uncanny way of being to replace those guys by inserting other equally effective guys. It's almost like the old football moniker "next man up".

[Fiver6565]

1 hour ago, DocJJ said:

Kremer started off the year pretty good and 2 of his last 3 outings were good, but his ERA is now around the 5.00 mark and he seems to have reverted back to mediocre girl-with-the-curl type...

I’m sorry, what is the ‘girl with the curl’ type?  Is Dean’s haircut the problem?  Has anyone let the front office know this?

[Fiver6565]

1 hour ago, DocJJ said:

Kremer started off the year pretty good and 2 of his last 3 outings were good, but his ERA is now around the 5.00 mark and he seems to have reverted back to mediocre girl-with-the-curl type...

I’m sorry, what is the ‘girl with the curl’ type?  Is Dean’s haircut the problem?  Has anyone let the front office know this?

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Grayson hasn't been bad recently. I never stated such. He has not been good for the duration of his time in the big leagues this season. Of his 11 starts only 5 have yielded 3 runs or less and 4 have yielded 5 runs or greater.

I said the Grayson-Irvin spot has been good recently. That has mostly been Irvin but Grayson was solid on his first start since the recall.