Felix vs the Otter

[DrungoHazewood]

Through May 13, 1990 Gregg Olson had the following career line:

85 games, 66 finished, 115.1 innings, 75 hits, 22 runs, 21 earned, 62 walks (4.8 per nine), 114 Ks (8.9), 2 homers (0.2), 1.64 ERA, 2 HBP, 11 WP, 4 BK. 7-3 with 35 saves.

Through yesterday Felix Bautista's career line is:

110 games, 69 finished, 114.2 innings, 61 hits, 27 runs, 21 earned, 42 walks (3.3), 184 Ks (14.4), 10 homers (0.8), 1.65 ERA, 3 HBP, 8 WP, 0 BK. 9-5 with 43 saves.

I probably wouldn't kick either one off the team...

[RZNJ]

Runs are basically the same.  Huge difference in BB:K and homers (2:10) might have something to do with the decade in which they pitched.  Olson threw hard but his curveball was his calling card.   Felix can have a great split but his fastball is his calling card.    I’ve been through a lot of closers. Bautista is my favorite even over Britton who had the best season ever.

[BRobinsonfan]

I had forgotten that Olso walked as many as he did.  I wonder if his 2 homers allowed vs. 10 for Bautista is a function of the type of pitches he threw or just the way the game has changed over the years?  

[emmett16]

33 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Runs are basically the same.  Huge difference in BB:K and homers (2:10) might have something to do with the decade in which they pitched.  Olson threw hard but his curveball was his calling card.   Felix can have a great split but his fastball is his calling card.    I’ve been through a lot of closers. Bautista is my favorite even over Britton who had the best season ever.

Intimidation factor alone puts him a peg above Britton for me.  I’d wager he will have more longevity as well. 
 

I was pretty young when Olson was the guy.  Didn’t folks learn to just lay off the curve and struggles ensued because it always finished below the strike zone? Or is that just in my head?  Off to bbref to get sucked in for an hour or 5. 

[Flash- bd]

35 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Intimidation factor alone puts him a peg above Britton for me.

All that matters is the results though, no?

I have a hard time seeing the statistical argument for Bautista > Britton. I have a hard time seeing any argument, if I'm honest. I think we're forgetting a bit just how dominant Britton was there. Probably the most dominant closer I've ever seen? 

[now]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

I’ve been through a lot of closers. Bautista is my favorite even over Britton who had the best season ever.

I'm fond of the old Stu Miller (slow, slower, and slowest) but it's hard to top 1997 Randy Myers, at 1.51 ERA and 45/46 in saves, in a wire-to-wire season. 

[waroriole]

29 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

All that matters is the results though, no?

I have a hard time seeing the statistical argument for Bautista > Britton. I have a hard time seeing any argument, if I'm honest. I think we're forgetting a bit just how dominant Britton was there. Probably the most dominant closer I've ever seen? 

Briton’s 2016 is as dominant as it gets. But, Felix could easily have the better Oriole career. I mean just look at the K rate he’s putting up this season (17.63 K/9)!!

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, emmett16 said:

Intimidation factor alone puts him a peg above Britton for me.  I’d wager he will have more longevity as well. 
 

I was pretty young when Olson was the guy.  Didn’t folks learn to just lay off the curve and struggles ensued because it always finished below the strike zone? Or is that just in my head?  Off to bbref to get sucked in for an hour or 5. 

My memory was that his fastball was fast but hittable and the curve was the pitch but you can see by the walk totals that he wasn’t automatic by any means.  He tried to get hitters to chase the curve and hitters tried to lay off it.

Ben McDonald had a curve almost as good as Olson.   I’d love to ask him about it one day.  He kept straining his arm and it’s my belief they changed his curve to something less stressful but not nearly as effective.  If there is video from McDonalds first 10 starts or first year, it would be interesting to see.

[DrungoHazewood]

55 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

All that matters is the results though, no?

I have a hard time seeing the statistical argument for Bautista > Britton. I have a hard time seeing any argument, if I'm honest. I think we're forgetting a bit just how dominant Britton was there. Probably the most dominant closer I've ever seen? 

If there's a case it's that Britton relied much more heavily on his defense. I think Bautista is more likely to get you out of a 2-on, no-out situation than Britton.

We'll see how the longevity goes. Britton was only Britton for about three seasons.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, emmett16 said:

Intimidation factor alone puts him a peg above Britton for me.  I’d wager he will have more longevity as well. 
 

I was pretty young when Olson was the guy.  Didn’t folks learn to just lay off the curve and struggles ensued because it always finished below the strike zone? Or is that just in my head?  Off to bbref to get sucked in for an hour or 5. 

Olson's curveball was so good that hitters didn't swing at it much.  Go find the clip on YouTube or whatever of this game in April of '89 where he fanned Parker, Henderson, and McGwire to notch a save. Each one on a video game curve that had the batters bailing. He had to rely on the umps to not get fooled by that, too, and that was kind of hit-or-miss.

Edited July 24, 2023 by DrungoHazewood

[sportsfan8703]

Bautista with the new extra inning rules gives him a little advantage.  It's hard for teams to even get the bunt down, and if they do... Bautista is striking so many guys out.  

[ArtVanDelay]

Felix is having the most dominant season ever by an Orioles closer.  We’ll see if it continues through the end of the season. 

[Jammer7]

Bautista is great and all, but he’s no Don Stanhouse. lol

[DrungoHazewood]

56 minutes ago, now said:

I'm fond of the old Stu Miller (slow, slower, and slowest) but it's hard to top 1997 Randy Myers, at 1.51 ERA and 45/46 in saves, in a wire-to-wire season. 

Obviously Myers had a good couple seasons with the Orioles but he never even pitched 60 innings. Bautista will probably pass that in 2-3 weeks. People complain about hyper-specialization today, but 26 years ago Myers averaged less than an inning an appearance.

Miller was before my time, but obviously very good. Different era, averaged almost two innings an appearance. ERA+ not at the stratospheric levels of today's relievers at their best, but it's near impossible to put up a 1.00 when you're throwing 70 games, 110 innings.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, Jammer7 said:

Bautista is great and all, but he’s no Don Stanhouse. lol

I still have no idea how Full Pack didn't just burst into flames. In 1979 he had 21 saves and a 2.85 ERA, but walked 51 with just 34 strikeouts in 72 innings. If social media existed in '79 worldwide servers would have melted every time he came in with less than a 5-run lead.