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What do we do about Jorge Mateo?

OsFanSinceThe80s

By OsFanSinceThe80s
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24fps Hangout Grand Counsel

24fps

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2 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

So...I think Mateo could start for quite a few teams in the MLB. If that's the case, why do some of think he has very little trade value? How much is a starting SS with elite speed and great defense who is as good as a third to a half of the other SS in the league worth?

Fangraphs Major League Leaders leaderboard filtered for SS playing as SS with at least 200 PA has Mateo ranked as 25th measured by WAR (0.4 total, 2.7 Def and -10.3 Off).  He is also at 25 sorted for defensive WAR.  This is for all of MLB not just AL.  He has found a useful (if redundant) role with the Orioles but overall he performs around the 20th percentile, not 33rd and certainly not 50th.

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Frobby
Frobby

Mateo has failed to make makeable plays at least 4 times in the last 9 games, every one of them in a consequential spot.  His offense isn’t bad, it’s HORRENDOUS.  He’s absolutely forfeited his privile

OsFanSinceThe80s
OsFanSinceThe80s

Mateo is giving nothing to the team right now. Mateo is supposed to at least be elite with his defense and he just isn't right now. Mateo is fast, but they have other players who can pinch run and als

Moose Milligan
Moose Milligan

I dunno who downvoted this post but that was silly. Everything here is spot on.    I was a big Mateo defender this off-season but he’s no longer defensible and he hasn’t been for quite some tim

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

It gets back to the ultimate question…is Gunnar or Jackson the Os shortstop?  
 

Jackson has played 25 games at 2b in minors! 

Gunnar's arm is much stronger from what I have seen.

Right now is Holliday a better 2B than Westburg?

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AnythingO's Major Leaguer

AnythingO's

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13 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Gunnar's arm is much stronger from what I have seen.

Right now is Holliday a better 2B than Westburg?

I think Westburg answered any questions about his defense this year. He got to that ball up the middle last night to hold the runner at 3B. He is a player to keep but maybe he could move to COF with his speed and athleticism. We need to see what we have in Cowser and HK first.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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18 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Gunnar's arm is much stronger from what I have seen.

Right now is Holliday a better 2B than Westburg?

Hitting is part of the equation.  Let’s say Westburg is a little ahead on defense but Holliday is ready to be a noticeably better hitter.  In that situation, you don’t make your decision on defense along.  You weigh the two and see who’s better overall.   Mind you, I’m not saying I think Holliday is ready to be the better overall player right now, I’m just discussing this hypothetically.  

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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21 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Gunnar's arm is much stronger from what I have seen.

Right now is Holliday a better 2B than Westburg?

If Gunnar flies through playoffs , tearing it up as SS, he will have that position in 2024 no matter what Jackson does I suspect.. thus the 2nd base starts for Jackson in minors this year 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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7 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

If Gunnar flies through playoffs , tearing it up as SS, he will have that position in 2024 no matter what Jackson does I suspect.. thus the 2nd base starts for Jackson in minors this year 

I don't think Elias is making decisions about next season based on a dozen or so postseeason games.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Hitting is part of the equation.  Let’s say Westburg is a little ahead on defense but Holliday is ready to be a noticeably better hitter.  In that situation, you don’t make your decision on defense along.  You weigh the two and see who’s better overall.   Mind you, I’m not saying I think Holliday is ready to be the better overall player right now, I’m just discussing this hypothetically.  

2023 AAA OPS:

Westburg  939

Holliday    796

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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24 minutes ago, wildcard said:

AAA OPS:

Westburg  939

Holliday    796

I think that’s important.  But, it’s a long winter.  We’ll see how things look in the spring.  I’m on record as saying that I think the odds are against Holliday making the team on Opening Day, but I wouldn’t rule it out completely.  

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That isn't accurate.  You are listing Westburg's AAA OPS for this season only.

I'd also like to point out that Westburg was in his age 23 and 24 seasons and Holliday is in his age 19 season.

 

Holliday may have the higher ceiling but Westburg has achieved more offensively at AAA.

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