What do we do about Jorge Mateo?

[MCO'sFan]

22 minutes ago, AdamK said:

Had similar thoughts as the play was unfolding. I could see the short throw coming.

I am an infield/1B coach for a decent college summer team and I spend the first 4 weeks trying to convince these D1 guys to shuffle-throw instead standing flat footed and moving through the hop instead of throwing sidearm and off balance on routine plays. It usually takes about 5-6 throwing errors and some bench time before they will adjust. I say this because I see more and more MLB middle infielders doing the same thing. Mateo throws flat footed alot too. It seems like fundamentals are not stressed much anymore. JJ Hardy and Bordick were shuffle-throw guys on every routine play and it showed in they hardly ever made throwing errors. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by MCO'sFan

[dzorange]

25 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Mateo has a roster spot in the playoff secured due to his speed, but his defense has been a little shaky lately so I no longer think he is a defensive upgrade in the late innings.

I don't think he should be on the roster next year. There are enough options at short and it doesn't make sense to pay arbitration prices for a backup shortstop and a pinch runner.

The only way I see (maybe hope) he gets playoff time is for pinch running or as a defensive sub only when they’re out of options when Hyde subs them a lot of guys to pinch hit.

I assume both he and Frazier are gone next year, naturally opening up more playing time for Westburg and giving Ortiz room to start the season on the MLB roster and get some playing time.

When it’s time to call up Holliday, the O’s will have seen enough out of Westburg, Ortiz and Urias to make a decision on who stays and who gets flipped.

[wildcard]

I think Mateo is back as a UIF next season plus I think they will give him reps in the outfield next spring as to make him a backup defensive OF.   That way he can replace McKenna who is out of options.

Hyde speaks of Mateo speed on the bases all the time.  I think O's management see him as an asset that helps them win games.  1/3M  

[DirtyBird]

Mateo has been giving us quality AB's lately. He will be our starting SS against any starting LHP in the playoffs.

[MurphDogg]

I expect Bradfield to be on the playoff roster next year in the role I expect Mateo to have this year (the Terrance Gore pinch running role with a possible defensive upgrade).

I think Bradfield could probably do that now, but it would be a waste of a 40-man roster spot for a full season.

That role is not as important in the regular season and Mateo doesn't hit nearly well enough to be playable as a reserve outfielder. Give me McKenna and if he is outrighted and you don't think Cowser is a short-term option as a backup centerfielder, make a trade for another AAAA player or someone like Hicks..

[SilentJames]

Mateo becomes a role-player on the team and he seems to be fine with that. its Urias that I think gets traded in the offseason with Holliday kicking the door down in the minors. 

Urias has had an off year, but he should easily net us some pitching on the higher-end of the development spectrum. 

[Sports Guy]

45 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Mateo has a roster spot in the playoff secured due to his speed, but his defense has been a little shaky lately so I no longer think he is a defensive upgrade in the late innings.

I don't think he should be on the roster next year. There are enough options at short and it doesn't make sense to pay arbitration prices for a backup shortstop and a pinch runner.

His spot on the roster comes down to 2 things:

1) Do they trade either Ortiz or Westburg?

2) Do they plan on starting the year with Holliday and/or Mayo on the roster?

For #1, if they keep both, Mateo is gone.

For #2, if either or both are on the roster, he’s gone.

To me, the most likely scenario is one of those 2 is traded and they don’t start the year with either of those guys on the roster, so I think Mateo starts the year with the Os and they just go from there.

[MurphDogg]

5 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Mateo has been giving us quality AB's lately. He will be our starting SS against any starting LHP in the playoffs.

I would rather have Gunnar, Westburg and either Urias or Frazier at 3B/SS/2B, even against lefties. 

The difference between Urias/Frazier and Mateo against lefties is nominal, and the boost that Mateo can give you off the bench as a pinch-runner / pinch-bunter is more important in my opinion.

[Aristotelian]

I had no problem with Jorge on that ball last night. O'Hearn and Mountcastle likely scoop it 80% of the time at least. 

Long term, I think Jorge brings a little more than Urias. He can play SS, infield and outfield, run, even hit LHP a little. The only thing he can't do is hit RHP. I prefer Jorge over Urias for a bench spot next year, but it's close and I wouldn't be upset if we traded Jorge for a solid return.

[MurphDogg]

11 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I had no problem with Jorge on that ball last night. O'Hearn and Mountcastle likely scoop it 80% of the time at least. 

Long term, I think Jorge brings a little more than Urias. He can play SS, infield and outfield, run, even hit LHP a little. The only thing he can't do is hit RHP. I prefer Jorge over Urias for a bench spot next year, but it's close and I wouldn't be upset if we traded Jorge for a solid return.

He has a career .665 OPS with an OBP of .282 against lefties. Better than his .618 OPS and .263 OBP against righties, but I don't think he is rosterable at that level in my opinion, especially for the 3x the minimum he would make next year in arbitration, and certainly not playable offensively anywhere but shortstop, so the fact that he can resemble an outfielder defensively doesn't do anything for me.

Edited September 28, 2023 by MurphDogg

[Three Run Homer]

I can't see Mateo or Urias bringing us much in return in a trade.  They don't provide a ton of surplus value given their production levels and the fact that they are arbitration eligible.  Maybe a relief prospect or fourth outfielder type.   The main benefit from moving on from them is that we create space for better players coming up through the system.   If we want to get anything substantial in an offseason trade it will come from trading someone like Santander.  

[The B&G]

17 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I can't see Mateo or Urias bringing us much in return in a trade.  They don't provide a ton of surplus value given their production levels and the fact that they are arbitration eligible.  Maybe a relief prospect or fourth outfielder type.   The main benefit from moving on from them is that we create space for better players coming up through the system.   If we want to get anything substantial in an offseason trade it will come from trading someone like Santander.  

Agreed, I think Mateo and Urias have value, so I wouldn't want to just let them walk, but I see them as a throw-in to a larger trade.   

[DrungoHazewood]

28 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I had no problem with Jorge on that ball last night. O'Hearn and Mountcastle likely scoop it 80% of the time at least. 

Long term, I think Jorge brings a little more than Urias. He can play SS, infield and outfield, run, even hit LHP a little. The only thing he can't do is hit RHP. I prefer Jorge over Urias for a bench spot next year, but it's close and I wouldn't be upset if we traded Jorge for a solid return.

Just know that "solid return" for Mateo isn't a lot, you're not getting a starter either in the field or on the mound, you're not getting an organizational top 10 prospect unless you get a great deal. 

I always try to look at this from the other team's perspective. If the Orioles were trading for a fast, plus-glove shortstop who hits like Kiko Garcia and is 29, what would you give up? Not a whole lot.

[Tony-OH]

Mateo will be useful bench player in the playoffs because of his speed and ability to come in and play a quality SS. I can see his speed late in a game being a difference maker in a close playoff game. 

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Mateo will be useful bench player in the playoffs because of his speed and ability to come in and play a quality SS. I can see his speed late in a game being a difference maker in a close playoff game. 

And next season?