What do we do about Jorge Mateo?

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

The question shouldn't be which one of Mateo or Frazier should be allowed to stay on the roster and start games. Neither of them are starters anymore. And if I have to choose between one of them on the bench, I'll take Mateo. He can come in as a pinch runner and for situational defense. Adam Frazier can... bunt?

Situational defense?  Ya mean in the late innings when making key defensive plays are critical????

[Sports Guy]

Yea you keep Frazier over Mateo but Frazier shouldn’t play much. His “clutchness” is nice but at the end of the day, he does more things that hurt you than help you.

[tntoriole]

DFA Mateo .. i cannot get him off this team fast enough 

[Mooreisbetter27]

Let’s not forget that Mateo didn’t run out that double play yesterday either. I don’t know if his confidence is shot, he’s frustrated or what, but it’s time for him to go play for a poor team where he can find a way to get plate appearances. We re contending for a division. He should be DFAed.

[24fps]

1 minute ago, accinfo said:

I suspect Mateo gets a start against a left hander tomorrow.  It may be close to his last chance but it sounds like Gunnar will be a day to day thing.  With Gunnar hurt I just don't see them DFA Mateo and playing another rookie in Ortiz.  Yes he is hitting at AAA but so was Cowser and Westburg.  Do you throw in another rookie with Hicks and Mullins out as well?  

Yes.  Yes you do.  Yesterday.

[Mooreisbetter27]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Yea you keep Frazier over Mateo but Frazier shouldn’t play much. His “clutchness” is nice but at the end of the day, he does more things that hurt you than help you.

I don’t even know why some posters are acting like they would even DFA Frazier. There is a tiny chance they would trade him but that is a pretty tiny chance. He’s going to be on this team until the end of the year. 

[Alasdaire]

9 minutes ago, Spakman said:

Good defense? Every ball hit him either boots double clutches the throw or just misses it.

11 minutes ago, Chavez Ravine said:

But the defense has gone, inexplicably. He is playing himself out of that playoffs pinch runner/defense role. There is nothing left. 

He's a league-average SS at worst and pretty much the only option at short if they keep Joey at Norfolk for the same amount of time that they did Westburg (another ~400 PAs). So good is an overstatement, but I think people are being a bit hyperbolic/myopic about his defense. Frazier provides zilch in the field or on the bases, and I find it hard to believe that his offensive production isn't replaceable.

[TopGunnar]

25 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

I would rather have Mateo on the bench than Frazier. Mateo's defense and speed aren't good/useful enough to justify the holes in his bat, but they're still usable skills from the bench. Does Frazier do a single thing well?

But Joey should have been starting over Jorge a long time ago now. If Hyde felt like he needed some reason to justify the optics of sitting Mateo down for another rookie, he has it after these past few games.

I don’t mean to be rude but do you watch the games? Because if you do, I have a hard time believing you’d rather have Mateo at bat than Frazier. 

[RZNJ]

Speaking of Frazier, nice way to turn a triple into an out.   What a bonehead running play.  The play is in front of you and even if you lose site of it as you go into 2nd you pick up the 3B coach.   But you don’t come to almost a complete stop before you look for the 3B coach.  He’s slow and he should have had a stand up triple.   One of the worst base running plays you’ll ever see.

[Alasdaire]

1 minute ago, TopGunnar said:

I don’t mean to be rude but do you watch the games? Because if you do, I have a hard time believing you’d rather have Mateo at bat than Frazier. 

Agreed. Mateo shouldn't be doing any batting. But neither should Frazier.

[EddeeEddee]

22 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

I would rather have Mateo on the bench than Frazier. Mateo's defense and speed aren't good/useful enough to justify the holes in his bat, but they're still usable skills from the bench. Does Frazier do a single thing well?

But Joey should have been starting over Jorge a long time ago now. If Hyde felt like he needed some reason to justify the optics of sitting Mateo down for another rookie, he has it after these past few games.

Frazier's OPS for the month of July is .884 -- with 3 doubles and 3 HRs in only 17 games.  Compare those numbers to any other up the middle player not named Gunnar.  

[Ripken]

He should have been DFA'd weeks ago in favor of Ortiz.  He adds nothing to the team.  And Bring up Kjerstad for Hicks while we're at it.  

[RarityFlaherty]

2 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

Agreed. Mateo shouldn't be doing any batting. But neither should Frazier.

Frazier is one of our best hitters with runners on base. 

[Ripken]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Speaking of Frazier, nice way to turn a triple into an out.   What a bonehead running play.  The play is in front of you and even if you lose site of it as you go into 2nd you pick up the 3B coach.   But you don’t come to almost a complete stop before you look for the 3B coach.  He’s slow and he should have had a stand up triple.   One of the worst base running plays you’ll ever see.

Yeah, that was really bad.  Worse even than that relay attempt in the 9th.  

[e16bball]

26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Mateo has failed to make makeable plays at least 4 times in the last 9 games, every one of them in a consequential spot.  His offense isn’t bad, it’s HORRENDOUS.  He’s absolutely forfeited his privilege to play for a c C o tending team.  

Frazier has flaws but he’s been WAY, WAY better than Mateo for the last three months.  It’s not even a close call.   
 

Pretty big Mateo fan, so I wish this wasn’t true…but it is. 

For weeks (coming up on months), I’ve also held the belief espoused in the post you quoted: that Mateo has the higher upside of the two, and that in any event, his elite skills (speed and defense) could find a meaningful role in a reserve role. 

But it’s just not going to happen. The defense just isn’t there when he’s sitting for long spells. He hasn’t just been “not elite” with the glove over the last few weeks, he’s been downright rough out there. I don’t know him personally, but it seems like he’s a guy that thrives on rhythm and confidence — and he has neither when he plays a couple times a week and basically knows he’s the last man on the roster. 

Still like the guy. I’ll be hoping we send him somewhere like COL or MIA and he figures out and becomes an All-Star. But at this point, unless Gunnar is out longer term, we’ve got to trade him for whatever we can get and let Ortiz come up.

Edited July 26, 2023 by e16bball