2023 Trade Deadline Hot Stove

[Alasdaire]

12 minutes ago, Number5 said:

This doesn't do much for your credibility.

They got two nice looking young prospects and they didn't have to eat any of Robertson's salary.  Good deal.  As much value as Basallo?  Umm... no.

https://twitter.com/jaseidler/status/1684779625497448449

The difference between Basallo and Vargas beyond Basallo is that Basallo is a catcher. Vargas has been a significantly better hitter than Basallo in both the DSL and FCL.

Basallo has more value beacuse he has gone up a level as he has gone up a level and he players catcher, but I don't think it's that far off from saying it would have been like trading Basallo + at this point last year.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Alasdaire

[Tryptamine]

8 minutes ago, Number5 said:

This doesn't do much for your credibility.

They got two nice looking young prospects and they didn't have to eat any of Robertson's salary.  Good deal.  As much value as Basallo?  Umm... no.

Or maybe you could read more. I already posted a tweet showing a guy from Baseball Prospectus saying Vargas is in the discussion for top 50 at the end of the year, but way to come in taking shots.

[Number5]

12 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Or maybe you could read more. I already posted a tweet showing a guy from Baseball Prospectus saying Vargas is in the discussion for top 50 at the end of the year, but way to come in taking shots.

I've seen nothing that indicates Vargas is as highly valued as Basallo.  And certainly you've shown nothing showing that.  They're prospects, and things can happen along the way in their development, so either or both may be a huge success or either or both can fail, but right now Basalla is the more valuable prospect according to pretty much everyone.  That's no knock on Vargas, it's simply the way it is.  Why you chose to push the issue and make a claim that no one else is making concerning their relative values only you can answer, but, as I said,  I don't find it credible.

[Number5]

16 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

https://twitter.com/jaseidler/status/1684779625497448449

The difference between Basallo and Vargas beyond Basallo is that Basallo is a catcher. Vargas has been a significantly better hitter than Basallo in both the DSL and FCL.

Basallo has more value beacuse he has gone up a level as he has gone up a level and he players catcher, but I don't think it's that far off from saying it would have been like trading Basallo + at this point last year.

Thank you for agreeing that Basallo has more value.  That was and remains my only point.  

[Alasdaire]

14 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Thank you for agreeing that Basallo has more value.  That was and remains my only point.  

Fair enough, the Basallo comp is probably a bit of a stretch. With these kids in rookie ball, you're really trying to make projections more than anything. And you can make some really tantalizing projections with Basallo since he's a catcher with big power. Vargas has produced exceptionally well, and it seems like he's a good athlete, but it's really tough to match Sammy's ceiling.

I suppose you can say it was commensurate value for both teams since Robertson was probably one of the best relievers available. But jeez, the Marlins giving away one of their very few interesting position players to add a reliever for two months to a team with a negative run differential seems penny wise pound foolish.

I wouldn't think Kim Ng is on the hot seat, but sometimes you wonder whether general managers are thinking about the long-term interests of the team or the short-term interests of themselves.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Alasdaire

[Tryptamine]

6 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I've seen nothing that indicates Vargas is as highly valued as Basallo.  And certainly you've shown nothing showing that.  They're prospects, and things can happen along the way in their development, so either or both may be a huge success or either or both can fail, but right now Basalla is the more valuable prospect according to pretty much everyone.  That's no knock on Vargas, it's simply the way it is.  Why you chose to push the issue and make a claim that no one else is making concerning their relative values only you can answer, but, as I said,  I don't find it credible.

Number 1, I never said he had more or the same value as Basallo.  I said "Vargas has huge helium, and isn't that far off from giving up Basallo. One of the guys at Baseball Prospectus wanted him in their top 50." In another thread I posted a tweet which I'll post again. 

I don't know what your deal is or why you're coming in here looking for a fight, but if he's a prospect in the running for top 50, as is suggested above, then their values are not terribly different. Frankly I'm not sure why I even bothered to summarize this for you since you weren't looking for an honest discussion from the beginning anyway.

 

[Number5]

5 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I don't know what your deal is or why you're coming in here looking for a fight, but if he's a prospect in the running for top 50, as is suggested above, then their values are not terribly different. Frankly I'm not sure why I even bothered to summarize this for you since you weren't looking for an honest discussion from the beginning anyway.

I havve no deal and wasn't looking for a fight.  I read your post and responded.  You accused me of not reading something in your post which simply wasn't there.  (Honest?)  You apparently had posted it elsewhere and then posted it here after the fact.  It's a post by a BP guy that had pushed unsuccessfully for Vargas to be included in their mid-season top 50 and who believes may make it into their top 50 at the end of the season.  OK?  Not sure how that equates to Basallo's value.  There was, of course, no reason for you to make the claim you made.  Your post would have been fine if you could have refrained from making the needless comment about Basallo.  I am in no way denigrating Vargas.  Looks like he is a good prospect that may go far.  He simply doesn't carry the value Basallo does today.  That was the reason for my response and remains the case.  

[Hallas]

5 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

Or maybe you could read more. I already posted a tweet showing a guy from Baseball Prospectus saying Vargas is in the discussion for top 50 at the end of the year, but way to come in taking shots.

 

I think that objectively there is absolutely no shot that Vargas is the same level of prospect Basallo is.  I appreciate that BA gave Vargas an honorable mention, and he is young, but he's a full year behind Basallo and (at least IMO) there's a pretty big jump he still has to make between the complex league and low-A just to reach the level that Basallo is currently at.  On top of that Basallo is a catcher.  I'm willing to buy that he is maybe in the 100-200 range but he has too much projection remaining at this point for me to take that BA blurb about him being just outside the top-50 seriously.

[webbrick2010]

I wanted Robertson.

Now the only reliever I have on my short list is Jordan Hicks

Why do I get the feeling that the O's will stand pat, or make AAA type depth trades only?

[Sports Guy]

46 minutes ago, Hallas said:

 

I think that objectively there is absolutely no shot that Vargas is the same level of prospect Basallo is.  I appreciate that BA gave Vargas an honorable mention, and he is young, but he's a full year behind Basallo and (at least IMO) there's a pretty big jump he still has to make between the complex league and low-A just to reach the level that Basallo is currently at.  On top of that Basallo is a catcher.  I'm willing to buy that he is maybe in the 100-200 range but he has too much projection remaining at this point for me to take that BA blurb about him being just outside the top-50 seriously.

Yea, he’s not close to Basallo.

There are a lot of these guys out there. These helium type guys that if things go the right way, could explode in a few years.

We are seeing it with Basallo and maybe one of these 2 guys will do that for the Mets but they aren’t there yet.

[Bahama O's Fan]

3 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

I wanted Robertson.

Now the only reliever I have on my short list is Jordan Hicks

Why do I get the feeling that the O's will stand pat, or make AAA type depth trades only?

What would we have to had given up in comparison to get him?

[RZNJ]

10 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

This is 100% wrong. Vargas has huge helium, and isn't that far off from giving up Basallo. One of the guys at Baseball Prospectus wanted him in their top 50.

If poster’s don’t recognize the name it’s “nothing”.   Vargas could become a star but it wouldn’t be for 3-4 years so no one really cares at this point.   Interesting that the big spending Mets took a long range return on the trade.

[interloper]

We are going to be choking on everyone's dust once again. 

[FlipTheBird]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

We are going to be choking on everyone's dust once again. 

We are well aware that very little leaks from the O’s front office. It is likely that if a trade happens, it’ll just happen with little preamble.

[Billy F-Face3]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

We are going to be choking on everyone's dust once again. 

This after the Rangers traded for Chapman. Shows you a team that is willing to secure/solidify it's bullpen and give itself every advantage against the post season contenders.

You have to respect the job that Bruce Bochy has done with that team. It's quite the turnaround from what they were a season ago. Even Jonah Heim has become an All Star under him.