So with todays win.....

[amoly22]

Yes, Big Steve finally brings in some intelligent commentary!!! I was afraid that the best we were going to get was SG's quotes from Lunardi, whose assessments of teams is apparently untouchable. Clearly, the RPI should only be used as a guide for evaluating teams. It really is important to examine the schedules. I thought my points in the other thread about the CAA show what such examinations can reveal.

[JohnD]

There was a great article in the Post yesterday or today about RPI and the MVC. Essentially, the article laid it out as if Northern Iowa got their big win over LSU early on and from there every team in the conference that beat them (and Northern Iowa finished in a tie for 5th) saw their RPI's go up.

If you ask me, from the MVC I'd put in Whichita State, SIU, and Northern Iowa. After that, the rest go to NIT land.

[mweb]

Seems like a lot of the great points by BigSteve are being ignored by the opposition.

[markpolis]

Agreed. He made some great points in this thread.

You are correct. BigSteve's rep is improving by the minute. :002_scool:

[Max Power]

Max...Did you watch the N. Iowa/Bucknell game? It took N. Iowa 2 OT's to beat Bucknell, and the students rushed the court as if it were their biggest win in years.

It is certainly a good story and there's obviously nothing wrong with situations like this. But when N. Iowa plays Bucknell in the same manner that teams like FSU, VA, or MD play Duke, I tink it's obvious that there is a very big gap there in terms of performance, talent, and potential.

I'm sorry but this really strikes me as someone who hasnt followed college basketball very closely this year. Bucknell is a very good team and unlike Virginia and FSU has actually been ranked in the top 25 this season. They are 3-3 in their big games with a home win over St Josephs and road victories over Syracuse and DePaul. They also beat a 3 seed in the first round of the tourney last year and gave Wisconsin a tough game in the second round which definitely raises this year's profile since they returned all but one player from that team.

I also cant see what rushing the court has to do with any of this and am sure that if you went to a podunk school like N Iowa you'd rush the court too if you ever happened to have a good win on ESPN.

I just feel that unless a mid major has a very good season but doesn't win the tournament, like Gonzaga if they would have won last night, that they should have to stick to winning their conference tournaments if they want to get in the Big Dance.

No you don't. You're expecting a spectacular season from a mid-major with only a couple losses. If Bucknell loses in the finals of their tourney they will be 24-5, isnt that very good? Most of the teams you've been crapping on have between 5-7 losses which has to qualify as very good seasons unless you're going to hold them to an absurd standard.

[mweb]

7 losses against mostly mediocre to bad competition is not an absurd standard imo.

[Max Power]

So to me, that's why the RPI is only slightly better than useless. Will the committee ignore it? Who knows? I do think that when the MVC#5 ahead of ACC#3 they're going to have to think twice. When three CAA teams didn't beat anyone but finish in the top 40, that has to cause a second look.

While everything else you said is true, this is really the only part of it worth discussing. If the selection committee ignores the RPI it would be a first. It would also immediately move several teams ahead of Maryland who have way more marquee wins so be careful what you wish for. I do think you see the CAA get discredited a bit by focusing more on top 50 RPI record but this is going to really hurt the Terps as well.

Maryland's strength right now is they finished .500 in a major conference and have a respectable RPI. Other than that, they really dont have much that the committee wants. Assuming a loss to BC they'd be 5-5 in the last 10, one good neutral court win, one marquee win against a bunch of losses to marquee opponents, and down year for the ACC. They then have to factor in how much worse would the team have been without McCray which isnt going to help their record. I hope they get in but I just dont see it happening without a win over BC.

[Max Power]

7 losses against mostly mediocre to bad competition is not an absurd standard imo.

Show me one team that is on the bubble that has lost 7 times against mostly mediocre competition. Northern Iowa beat both LSU and Iowa so they have to be pretty good dont they? They lost a bad game to Indiana St but every other loss is at least as respectable as losses to Temple and Clemson.

[mweb]

While everything else you said is true, this is really the only part of it worth discussing. If the selection committee ignores the RPI it would be a first. It would also immediately move several teams ahead of Maryland who have way more marquee wins so be careful what you wish for. I do think you see the CAA get discredited a bit by focusing more on top 50 RPI record but this is going to really hurt the Terps as well.

Maryland's strength right now is they finished .500 in a major conference and have a respectable RPI. Other than that, they really dont have much that the committee wants. Assuming a loss to BC they'd be 5-5 in the last 10, one good neutral court win, one marquee win against a bunch of losses to marquee opponents, and down year for the ACC. They then have to factor in how much worse would the team have been without McCray which isnt going to help their record. I hope they get in but I just dont see it happening without a win over BC.

That's fine, if MD doesn't get in because a team with a better resume other than rpi, I won't complain. I just don't see how a team like GM is more worthy.

[mweb]

Show me one team that is on the bubble that has lost 7 times against mostly mediocre competition. Northern Iowa beat both LSU and Iowa so they have to be pretty good dont they? They lost a bad game to Indiana St but every other loss is at least as respectable as losses to Temple and Clemson.

George Mason.

[Max Power]

Seems like a lot of the great points by BigSteve are being ignored by the opposition.

If you mean the selection committee than I'd agree. All of the "opponents" are simply applying the selection criteria to determine whether or not Maryland gets in as a team right now, not whether or not the MVC beats the ACC in a head-to-head challenge because that doesnt mean anything for a bid. BigSteve is right on quite a few points but if the selection committee has shown that it is going to ignore most of his points than why bother discussing them?

[Max Power]

George Mason.

But their losses arent that bad. Close road losses to Miss St and Wake Forest and everything else is pretty good. That being said, I think CAA only gets two and Hofstra should get in over George Mason since they beat them twice down the stretch.

I havent followed Old Dominion but they'd need an injury to a marquee player cite or some other extenuating circumstance because a 6-4 finish, only 1 good win, and a 9 loss season should eliminate them from consideration.

[mweb]

If you mean the selection committee than I'd agree. All of the "opponents" are simply applying the selection criteria to determine whether or not Maryland gets in as a team right now, not whether or not the MVC beats the ACC in a head-to-head challenge because that doesnt mean anything for a bid. BigSteve is right on quite a few points but if the selection committee has shown that it is going to ignore most of his points than why bother discussing them?

I think the points a lot of us are making are that MD along with some other schools should get in over GM. Not that they will get in over them.

Concerning your last question, the O's are going to ignore most if not all of what we say, so why bothering discussing what they should and shouldn't do.

[mweb]

But their losses arent that bad. Close road losses to Miss St and Wake Forest and everything else is pretty good. That being said, I think CAA only gets two and Hofstra should get in over George Mason since they beat them twice down the stretch.

I havent followed Old Dominion but they'd need an injury to a marquee player cite or some other extenuating circumstance because a 6-4 finish, only 1 good win, and a 9 loss season should eliminate them from consideration.

You asked for a team that has 7 losses, is on the bubble, and has played mostly mediocre to poor competition, I provided that team. And there are other teams with 5-7 losses who are on the bubble who have played mostly mediocre to poor competition.

[Max Power]

Well if you don't have my point now you likely aren't going to get it.

I said that N Iowa has to play their toughest games against teams like Bucknell. The teams like MD and VA have to play those games against Duke. Big difference.

Me bringing up rushing the court was just showing how big that game seemed to them. If they have to fight that hard just to beat Bucknell (who is a good team, which I never said they weren't, but are not close to being in the same class as Duke or NC, teams like that) how are they going to hang with the top dogs consistently?

But the problem here is that Maryland didnt beat any of their "big game" opponents. Scheduling these teams only helps schools if they can manage to beat them every once in a while. Maryland went 2-7 against top 50 RPI and only 4-4 against 51-100 schools which isnt all that impressive. Northern Iowa on the other hand beat two top 14 RPI schools in Iowa and LSU on the road which is why they get in over Md.