Does Buck Showalter belong in the Orioles’ Hall of Fame?

[Frobby]

I got to thinking last night about whether Buck Showalter eventually should get into the Orioles’ Hall of Fame.  I can see arguments both ways.

Pros:

- He managed the second-most games (1353) of any Orioles’ manager.

- He won the second-most games (669) of any Orioles’ manager.

- He got the O’s to the playoffs 3 times, including winning a division title.

- He led the team out of the wilderness after 14 straight losing seasons.

Cons:

- He ended his Baltimore tenure with a losing overall record (.494).

- He never made it to a World Series with the O’s.

- He presided over the worst team in Orioles’ history, the 2018 team.

- He is thought to have overstepped his bounds as manager and gotten involved in front office decisions such as the Chris Davis extension.

- His decision not to use Zach Britton in the 2016 wild card game is still vehemently criticized by most O’s fans.

What do you think?  Remember, the bar for getting into the Orioles Hall of Fame isn’t very high.  I mean, Fred Manfra is in there.  But should Buck go in at some point?

 

[osfan83]

I think your first two bullet points under pro is reason enough. He is more deserving than several who are already in the Orioles HOF. 

[dystopia]

Boy this is a tough one IMO. I think yes though. 

[Sports Guy]

Of course. This isn’t even a real decision.

[LTO's]

Sure but only because the O's aren't all that selective when it comes to picking the HOF. Winning one playoff series in 8 years (and his whole career), not winning a single ALCS game, being somewhat responsible for the worst contract in team history and ending with a below .500 record is not all that impressive. The Orioles sucking for 15 years prior to his arrival makes everyone look back at those teams more fondly than mostly anyone else would.  I wonder how many people would hold Buck in way higher esteem than say John Gibbons who coincided with Buck's tenure here. Gibbons ended his time with the Blue Jays above .500, same # of division titles and double the play off wins.

 

[Sanfran327]

Huge Buck fan. But IMO a) he wasn't here all that long and b) we never won anything truly meaningful with him. 

The argument for putting him into our HOF is largely couched by the perverse mediocrity of the modern era of the franchise.

[Can_of_corn]

It's not a real high bar so sure.  He'll make a nice speech.

[Aristotelian]

Johnny Oates and Ray Miller are in. Buck has to be in. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Johnny Oates and Ray Miller are in. Buck has to be in. 

I think Miller is in there mainly due to his successful run as pitching coach, not his performance as a manager.  

[DrungoHazewood]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Of course. This isn’t even a real decision.

Buck passed the threshold for getting into the O's Hall of Fame sometime in 2012. The criteria for being in the O's HOF is basically "was he a cool guy who was associated with the team for a while?" Billy Hunter is in the O's Hall for being a shortstop who hit .200 with no power for few years, then coached for a long time. Bob Brown is in for being an executive, and I literally don't even know who he is and I've followed the team closely for 44 years. Same with Lenny Johnston and Julie Wagner. Ray Miller is in for being a good pitching coach and a terrible manager. Rich Dauer is in for his solid-ish 2B on some good teams.

Buck is 2nd on the modern team in managerial wins and played a huge role in dragging an Angelos-owned team that made almost no fundamenal changes from the 1998-2010 wilderness to three playoff appearances. He should get a medal.

[Sports Guy]

He gets in solely because he changed the culture of a crappy organization and helped to make them winners again. 
 

Now, the question is, does putting Buck in mean you also have to put Duquette in?

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Buck passed the threshold for getting into the O's Hall of Fame sometime in 2012. The criteria for being in the O's HOF is basically "was he a cool guy who was associated with the team for a while?" Billy Hunter is in the O's Hall for being a shortstop who hit .200 with no power for few years, then coached for a long time. Bob Brown is in for being an executive, and I literally don't even know who he is and I've followed the team closely for 44 years. Same with Lenny Johnston and Julie Wagner. Ray Miller is in for being a good pitching coach and a terrible manager. Rich Dauer is in for his solid-ish 2B on some good teams.

Buck is 2nd on the modern team in managerial wins and played a huge role in dragging an Angelos-owned team that made almost no fundamenal changes from the 1998-2010 wilderness to three playoff appearances. He should get a medal.

Julie is in the Os HOF?  Had no idea. She was there forever.

Bob Brown did communications iirc. Was also there forever. My dad was friends with him. Nice guy.

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Julie is in the Os HOF?  Had no idea. She was there forever.

Bob Brown did communications iirc. Was also there forever. My dad was friends with him. Nice guy.

That's what wikipedia says.

[clapdiddy]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He gets in solely because he changed the culture of a crappy organization and helped to make them winners again. 
 

Now, the question is, does putting Buck in mean you also have to put Duquette in?

No way Duquette gets in.  I'm sure the Angelos family will not allow that.

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He gets in solely because he changed the culture of a crappy organization and helped to make them winners again. 
 

Now, the question is, does putting Buck in mean you also have to put Duquette in?

It's the Orioles Hall of Fame, the rules are whatever they want the rules to be. But I wouldn't be opposed to putting Buck and Duquette in at the same time.

Yes, Duquette mortgaged the future. But what else was he going to do? It appears that his marching orders from Angelos were to not sign any big free agents, keep the payroll in check, don't fix the farm system... and go win a pennant.